[Dan D'Silva]

Hello.

Given the state of advancement in iron smithing in or around Central Europe (area of Hallstatt and early La Tene cultures and nearby) in the early 5th century BCE, would it have been possible for a smith to make a shield entirely out of iron? Not necessarily a large one, but similar to the all-bronze shields from the late Bronze Age.

I'm not asking whether anyone did, though that would be nice to know, just whether anyone could have, if the idea had occurred to them.

[Matthew Amt]

Interesting question! From what I've seen, though, not *quite* that early.

The earliest iron armor I've seen in Europe (aside from a shirt of Thracian scale which might be 5th century) is the two iron tube and yoke cuirasses from 4th century Macedonian royal tombs. One is the famous Vergina armor, of course, but the other, less well-preserved, was also found with the fragments of iron greaves, and fragments of what was apparently a full iron aspis facing. That's about when iron helmets start showing up in the Aegean, too.

That said, I'm not certain about Western Europe. I definitely haven't seen any remains of iron shields or armor from the 5th century. The use of mail by around 300 BC shows they could make iron sheet and wire at that point, but I'm darned if I can think of any iron helmets that date even that far back. Shield *bosses*, maybe.

That's all I got!

Matthew

[Dan Howard]

Is there any reason why you'd need a shield made from one piece? Why not make it from strips and rivet them together like Japanese tanko armour? AFAICT metal shields were pretty rare in any time period so nobody saw any real point in making them. Metal facings were more common.

[Dan D'Silva]

Thank you. I figured it would be... a long shot. And a bit of an excessive use of iron for the time.

[Matthew Amt]

"Attainable" is really hard to say, without some input from experienced smelters and smiths. It might be easier to get smaller pieces of iron sheet than a larger one, but I simply don't know. Then you have to make the conceptual jump to multi-piece shields, riveted together, which isn't seen until the late middle ages. It's not that it's beyond their capability, it just isn't something they *do*, in large part because they don't need to--they have several perfectly workable options already. So in that regard, an iron-faced aspis makes sense, because bronze-faced aspides are old hat.

Matthew

[Dan D'Silva]

Understood. As I say, it's not so important to me whether it was actually done.

So I'm picturing a buckler or dhal, with a central boss and the body in quarters, either overlapping or joined by strips like on a spangenhelm. I'm sure if one could produce swords, then something like that would be within the abilities of an inventive smith.

[Mark Moore]

I have little doubt that a shield like that *could* have been made in that time. It only makes sense, really. You have metal swords, spears and arrowheads...why not a shield reinforced with the same? As you said---An *inventive* metal smith would have almost certainly thought of it. We just haven't found proof of such in that early of a time-frame. History continues to amaze and confuse us......... ............McM

[Matthew Amt]

[Dan D'Silva]

Would you say the technological challenge is in producing large enough pieces of sheet iron, or producing sheet iron at all? I'm sure I'd seen photos of Hallstatt daggers with iron scabbards, but maybe I'm misremembering and they were actually bronze.

[Dan Howard]

[Dan D'Silva]

Thank you. Like I say, it's not that important to me whether anyone came up the idea or would've had the right mindset to, only whether they'd have had the technological capacity to pull it off if they had though of it. So evidence that they could make a large enough piece of sheet iron, or that they could make smaller pieces and rivet them together, would be sufficient for my purpose.

[Dan Howard]

They could have made gunpowder and bronze cannons but they didn't.

[Dan D'Silva]

Yes, but I'm not suggesting, speculating, or arguing that what I'm envisioning is historical in any way.

[Matthew Amt]

[Benjamin H. Abbott]

Metal shields weren't rare in 15th-16th-century Europe, but rather pretty common (especially if you count bucklers). The same goes for the Middle East in that period & perhaps earlier. Steel shields, like steel armor, probably provide the most projection per unit of weight.

Gunpowder & gunpowder weapons require tons of experimentation to develop.

[Dan D'Silva]

I was under the impression that the proliferation of steel shields, plate armor and longswords from the Late Middle Ages onward was facilitated by some advances in steel production and/or smithing.