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William P




Location: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 11 Jul 2010

Posts: 1,523

PostPosted: Tue 06 Jun, 2017 8:40 am    Post subject: assize of arms 1181 and 1252, (and the leidang)         Reply with quote

oki i have a few questions, secondly, some help interperating the text of the 1181 assize

such as

1. Whoever possesses one knight's fee shall have a shirt of mail, a helmet, a shield, and a lance; and every knight shall have as many shirts of mail, helmets, shields, and lances as he possesses knight's fees in demesne.[note 1]

2. Moreover, every free layman who possesses chattels or rents to the value of 16m. shall have a shirt of mail, a helmet, a shield, and a lance; and every free layman possessing chattels or rents to the value of 10m. shall have a hauberk, an iron cap, and a lance.[note 2]

3. Item, all burgesses and the whole community of freemen shall have [each] a gambeson,[note 3] an iron cap, and a lance.

main questions relate to, the meaning of the various ranks etc mentioned (such, as what is 16m?)

and also perhaps how this might relate to sword ownership sinc ethe sword isnt mentioned in any of those catagories.

also very wierd that shields stop being mentioned and that horses arnt directly required


second half relates to, if anyone knows the contents of the 1252 assize, specifically who is to own what and how it differs from the 181 law if it does at all.


lastly, doesnt anyone know the contents of the leidang laws in relation to arms ownership, if i remember correctly its supposed to be similar to the assizes above?
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Tue 06 Jun, 2017 10:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, "16m" is 16 marks, a measure of the man's value or income.

I noticed shields aren't required for the lowest classes--I *suspect* it may be because the "lance" is a long, 2-handed spear or pike. Got nothing to back that up, though!

Matthew
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,302

PostPosted: Tue 06 Jun, 2017 3:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You probably should read through this previous thread.
http://myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=32114

Here's the 1242 Statute of Arms
Source: Close rolls of the reign of Henry III, Vol. 4, pp. 482-3
https://archive.org/details/closerollsofreig04grea

De forma pacis conservande. — Rex vicecomiti Wygorn', salutem. ….
Free men between the age of 15 and 60 should arm themselves as follows:
Those with a knight’s fee (xv. libratas terre) must have hauberk (loricam), iron hat (capellum ferreum), sword (gladium), knife (cultellum), and horse (equum).
Those with half a knight’s fee (x. libratas terre) must have haubergeon (haubergellum), iron hat (capellum ferreum), sword and knife (gladium et cultellum).
Those with 100 shillings worth of land must have pourpoint (purpointum), iron hat (capellum ferreum), sword (gladium), spear (lanceam), and knife (cultellum).
Those with land worth between 40 and 100 shillings must have sword (gladium), bow (arcum), arrows (sagittas), and knife (cultellum).
Those with land worth less than 40 shillings must have scythes (falces), guisarmes (gysarmas), knives (cultellos), and other small arms (et alia arma minuta).
Those with goods valued at 60 marks must have hauberk (loricam), hat (capellum), sword (gladium), knife (cultellum), and horse (equum).
Those with goods valued at 40 marks must have haubergeon (haubergellum), hat (capellum), sword (gladium), and knife (cultellum).
Those with goods valued at 20 marks must have pourpoint (purpointum), hat (capellum), sword (gladium), and knife (cultellum).
Those with goods valued at 10 marks must have sword, knife, bow, and arrows (gladium, cultellum, arcum et sagittas).
Those with goods valued between 40 shillings and 10 marks must have scythes (falces), knives (cultellos), guisarmes (gysarmas), and other small arms (et alia arma minuta).
Those who live in the woods that can come out must have bows and arrows (arcum et sagittas), or they can have bows and piles (arcus et pilettos).

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

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PostPosted: Tue 06 Jun, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I thought that falces was a heavy general-purpose blade like a machete.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,302

PostPosted: Tue 06 Jun, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Howard wrote:
I thought that falces was a heavy general-purpose blade like a machete.


In Latin, it can be translated as both sickle and scythe. It might mean a generic farming tool.

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Fri 09 Jun, 2017 7:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yup.

They show up in supplies of wars for noncombat supplies a great deal. Just saw a few in Ed II's campaign in Scotland in the 1320s.

RPM
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Stephen Curtin




Location: Cork, Ireland
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PostPosted: Sat 10 Jun, 2017 5:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Mart for posting statutes of 1242.

I agree with Matthew, a two handed spear was probably what was intended in the assize of 1181.

Éirinn go Brách
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Jun, 2017 7:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It would make sense. That said it is the lowest group. It could just be they could not be expected to come with anymore. If it were 100 years later I'd say they'd have been further equipped at muster.

RPM
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