[Andrew Gill]

Hi Samuel

A few points:
Firstly, grabbing a spear requires that the grabber has a free hand - and if you are in a shield-wall, you don't really want to let go of your shield or your weapon if you can help it (even if you have a sword knot or similar strap connecting your wrist, it will take you time to recover it). Also, any attack will create openings which your opponents can exploit - grabbing with your hand is likely to put it in harm's way beyond the protection of your shield. By the way: the reason why chess pawns capture diagonally is apparently because the people on either side of your direct opponent in the shield wall are best placed to take advantage of openings in your defence - if you have a long enough weapon (like a spear). This was evidently as true in India a few thousand years ago (when chess was invented) as it was in the 1700s when english soldiers were supposedly taught to do this with bayonets fixed on muskets, against sword-and-shield armed highlanders in the jacobite rebellion.

Regarding the "rugby scrum with swords and shields", although I think this might be true of pre-Alexander ancient greek phalanx tactics, my understanding is that from roman times onward, soldiers usually fought in a slightly more open formation, with enough space to wield their weapons. Vegetius certainly thought they should:

[Matthew Harrington]

My god.... this guy.... he comes here asking for people to argue with him, you all do, then he gets upset when you all basically prove him wrong. Some people.

[Matthew Amt]

Baffling, isn't it? I also went through the Battle of Maldon poem, which I should have done right from the start. Did anyone else give that a careful read? Because I'm just not seeing the part where it states clearly that the fighters threw 3 spears then drew their swords. There *are* some spears being thrown, no doubt about that, but also some blows dealt with spears that could be thrusts. Most of the guys drawing swords aren't said to have thrown spears first.

Never did hear anything back from him about evidence for leather or textile armor.

Oh, well.

Matthew

[David Hohl]

On the projectile issue, while spears make great missile weapons, and this was an important part of their use, what stuck with me in reading the sagas was just how many people were killed by folks chucking rocks. Theres a lot of argument about the best use of various weapons in various tactical settings, and the shield wall is certainly a tricky and demanding place to fight, but just remember that a lot of fighting took place much more informally. A big group of men was both difficult to assemble and incredibly valuable. Rushing around dealing major carnage is just going to result in a lot of dead farms next winter, so you have to be judicious with your battles. In reading meals saga for example, a majority of the killing takes place between gangs of four or five guys chasing each other around fords and other out of the way places, and usually after one or two people are killed the rest will leave. In this context the proper use of a spear or other weapon is to kill a specific person, either thrown or thrust, and you probably won't continue the engagement beyond fighting two or three individual people, either with your sword or knife once you lose the first weapon.

[M. Palin]

[J. Douglas]

[M. Palin]

[J. Douglas]