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Pedro Paulo Gaião
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 Posted: Fri 19 May, 2023 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| Pieter B. wrote: | On 28 October 1472 a pension of six thousand livres tournois was given to ‘Sir Philip de Commynes, knight, lord of Renescure, King’s counsellor and chamberlain’. In the same month Commynes received the principality of Talmont and the baronies, castles, castellanies, lands and lordships of Olonne, Curzon, Château-Gaultier, la Chaume and Berrye in Poitou. At about the same time the King gave him 30,000 gold crowns to help him purchase the lordship of Argenton (Deux-Sèvres) from his future father-in-law. On 27 January 1473 he married Hél;ène de Chambres and became lord of Argenton It is by the title ‘sire (or seigneur) d’Argenton that he is usually referred to in French documents. In the meantime he accumulated a series of titles and offices, including the captaincy of Chinon. In 1476 he became senschal of Poitou and captain of the castle of Poitiers in succession to Charles d’Amboise, lord of Chaumont.
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Did that principality was that of a Count? Or lordship was rather vague in France?
| Quote: | | Lets look at those Companies D'ordnance which had roughly 2000 men-at-arms, how many do you reckon were courtiers of either the king of France or Burgundy? Surely they can't all have been cogs in this administrative machine of France or Burgundy? |
myArmoury has an article pointing that a good proportion of the French Standing Army's MAA were noble, and one record book I read, with names and such, seems to give the idea that actual knights and lords were one or two in a whole company, and always in power positions; perhaps this makes senses since you're bound to anual service being allocated in a castle or barracks outside a city, with actual obligations like a modern soldier. This fits more the style or professional soldiers and gentry that doesn't have other responsibilities.
| Quote: | | An interesting thing about those merchant bankers is that they often operated without any kind of security interest and monarchs could often just write loans off without any kind of repercussion. |
Even the Jews that endured prejudice and could be easily fooled around with massacres and expulsions doesn't seen to have been unpaid: when they come back after being expelled, they were paid by the Monarch if his predecessor had debts with them. Venezuela was given to one of these German banking families after the Emperor failed to pay them back, as compensation (they thought El Dorado was there, btw). Even they were not paid, I guess they would commute the debt by taking lands or something else.
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| Anthony Clipsom wrote: | | Quote: | | Were yeoman called up, or did they volunteer? |
Indentures used "volunteers", though there could be a degree of social, rather than legal, obligation. Indentures could also be filled by calling on paid retainers to honour their contract obligations.
Answering a commission of array was a legal thing, your obligation being dependent on your status. The actual force arrayed, though, would be selective - in theory the best men with the best kit. However, the obligation could be avoided if you had the connections/money. You could, for example, hire a substitute to take your place.
This is a very rough and ready explanation. The real situation was doubtless more nuanced and complicated. |
Yeomen didn't seem so different from English folk in cities etc. They were small land-owners, non-noble. They were subject to what in Iberia was known as aquantiados, and what locally it seems to be called "Comissions of Array". As they had more income than serfs, generally, so they were subject to have more equipment. It seens the largest your aquantiado/arrayed pool is, the best will be your final sellection.
France was worldwide known for having the best cavalry, and it also happens that France had the biggest amount of cavalrymen in Europe. They could field an entire army just with cavalrymen, so perhaps they picked the best from a large reserve, thus making way better than Scotland, where a French officer said only in the entire military array of the realm only 500 had the equipment fit for a men-at-arms service (to French standards). Scottish cavalry in British battles was often around 250-500, and couldn't compete with England. Large donations of armor from France to Scotland often happened, to encourage them to fight the English; that's what happened in late 14th century when France send both 2000 full armor sets and 2000 men-at-arms to Scotland to put make Scotland roll over England (and they failed, Froissart tells us lots about that).
Notice that:
France: Largest pool of cavalrymen, also best heavy cavalrymen of Europe
England: Largest pool of longbowmen, also best longbowmen of Europe
Albania: Largest pool of light cavalrymen, also (arguably) best light cavalrymen of Europe
This might also follow Genoa and Portugal with crossbowmen. Switzerland also sent their best to mercenary service, etc.
“Burn old wood, read old books, drink old wines, have old friends.”
Alfonso X, King of Castile (1221-84)
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Augusto Boer Bront
Industry Professional
Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Posts: 294
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| Posted: Fri 19 May, 2023 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Pedro Paulo Gaião wrote: |
France was worldwide known for having the best cavalry, and it also happens that France had the biggest amount of cavalrymen in Europe. They could field an entire army just with cavalrymen, so perhaps they picked the best from a large reserve, thus making way better than Scotland, where a French officer said only in the entire military array of the realm only 500 had the equipment fit for a men-at-arms service (to French standards). Scottish cavalry in British battles was often around 250-500, and couldn't compete with England. Large donations of armor from France to Scotland often happened, to encourage them to fight the English; that's what happened in late 14th century when France send both 2000 full armor sets and 2000 men-at-arms to Scotland to put make Scotland roll over England (and they failed, Froissart tells us lots about that).
Notice that:
France: Largest pool of cavalrymen, also best heavy cavalrymen of Europe
England: Largest pool of longbowmen, also best longbowmen of Europe
Albania: Largest pool of light cavalrymen, also (arguably) best light cavalrymen of Europe
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I wonder where this notion comes from. Do we have any actual period source saying that French cavalry is of the highest quality in Europe? And if so, when? And said by who? And repeated how many times?
So far it's something I've only seen said and repeated by modern authors. I'd love to see some actual historical source for that. And this goes for their numbers too. Would love to see some original quotes on that.
And of course the same applies for the archers and the light cavalry.
Armourer-Artist-Blacksmith
www.magisterarmorum.com
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Pinterest albums on almost all existing XVth century Italian armour.
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Anthony Clipsom
Location: YORKSHIRE, UK Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Wed 07 Jun, 2023 11:36 am Post subject: |
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Well, for the English and archery, we do have some period comments. For example, from Report of England made by Giovanni Michiel, late Ambassador to Queen Mary and King Philip, to the Venetian Senate, on the 13th May 1557.
But above all, their proper and natural weapons are the bow and arrow, of which so great is the number, owing to the general use made of them by all sorts of persons, without distinction of grade, age, or profession, that it exceeds all belief. This does not proceed merely from choice, but also from the obligation imposed generally on all heads of families to provide each individual of his household with them, including the little boys when they come to the age of nine years (et i putti piccoli come arrivano alli 9 anni); all for the sake not only of suppressing (rimover) every other exercise, but with all diligence to increase this one, in which the English place all their strength and all their hope, they, to say the truth, being most expert archers, so that they would not yield to any other people more trained and experienced than they are; and such is their opinion of archery and their esteem for it, that they doubtless prefer it to all sorts of arms, and to harquebuses, in which they trust less, feeling more sure of their bows and arrows; contrary, however, to the judgment of the captains and soldiers of other nations. They draw the bow with such force and dexterity at the same time, that some are said to pierce corslets and body-armour; and there are few among them, even those that are moderately practised, who will not undertake at a convenient distance, either aiming point-blank, or in the air (as they generally do, that the arrow may fly farther), to hit within an inch and a half (un mezzo palmo) of the mark. Such, for the most part, are their offensive arms.
My emphasis. Incidentally, the translation of "un mezzo palmo" is probably wrong, as it uses the English palm. The various Italian versions of palm measure were equivalent to the English span. According to wikipedia, the Venetian palm was even larger, at over 37cm. So, accuracy is less than implied, though, as range isn't given, it doesn't reveal a great deal. End of digression.
Anthony Clipsom
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