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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Armor from the Philipines (Moro) and Indonesia. Reply to topic
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Eric S




Location: new orleans
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PostPosted: Thu 02 Oct, 2014 11:22 pm    Post subject: Armor from the Philipines (Moro) and Indonesia.         Reply with quote

I have put together the largest known collection of armor related images from the Philippines and Indonesia, many detailed images of Moro warriors mail and plate shirts, also brass helmets based on European models. Some of these images have been newly edited and were not available before this. The Moro's first fought the Spanish and later the Americans using locally produced armor of considerable quality and yet their armor is rarely seen or discussed. These guys were the real thing, feared fighters who were not afraid of death.


http://www.pinterest.com/worldantiques/armor-...rrounding/





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Stephen Curtin




Location: Cork, Ireland
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PostPosted: Fri 03 Oct, 2014 1:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing, Eric.
Éirinn go Brách
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Timo Nieminen




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PostPosted: Fri 03 Oct, 2014 2:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

These Moro plate-and-mail armours are a prominent example of butted mail intended for battle. (The mail is generally butted brass links, and the plates either brass or buffalo horn.)
"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Bob Haynes




Location: Mount Perry, Ohio
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PostPosted: Fri 03 Oct, 2014 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Armor from the Philipines (Moro) and Indonesia.         Reply with quote

Eric S wrote:
I have put together the largest known collection of armor related images from the Philippines and Indonesia, many detailed images of Moro warriors mail and plate shirts, also brass helmets based on European models. Some of these images have been newly edited and were not available before this. The Moro's first fought the Spanish and later the Americans using locally produced armor of considerable quality and yet their armor is rarely seen or discussed. These guys were the real thing, feared fighters who were not afraid of death.


Damn straight about how fearless they were. I remember reading in one of my grandfather's Gun Digests that during that war at the turn of the century the Colt .45 automatic pistol came into development, for its immense stopping power.
The Philippine fighters were that hell bent!


Thank you for sharing these wonderful pics of Filipino armor and link much appreciated!
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Eric S




Location: new orleans
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PostPosted: Fri 03 Oct, 2014 10:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Timo Nieminen wrote:
These Moro plate-and-mail armours are a prominent example of butted mail intended for battle. (The mail is generally butted brass links, and the plates either brass or buffalo horn.)

Timo your right, an often overlooked example of butted mail in use.

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Shahril Dzulkifli




Location: Malaysia
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PostPosted: Sun 05 Oct, 2014 3:47 am    Post subject: Armour from the Philippines (Moro) and Indonesia         Reply with quote

Moro arms and armour at the American Museum of Natural History in New York

“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”

- Marcus Aurelius
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Pieter B.





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PostPosted: Sun 05 Oct, 2014 5:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Did these guys fight in the Aceh wars?
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Michael Wiethop




Location: St. Louis
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PostPosted: Sun 05 Oct, 2014 11:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

These arms and armor are true works of art! Thank you for collecting these images. I'm doubtful as to the effectiveness of the brass butted mail and horn plates of kurab-a-kulang, especially against those fearsome spears, but the armor must have worked well enough to be used, especially against swords. The armor really resembles a lot of Turkish plated mail; was there any contact between the Moros and the Ottomans, maybe through Aceh?
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Timo Nieminen




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PostPosted: Sun 05 Oct, 2014 2:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't know if the Ottomans traded directly with the Philippines (Arab traders went that far), but they did trade with SE Asia, so at least indirect contact. But given earlier Indian trade through the region, and early Indian use of plate-and-mail armour, India is also a possible source. Could have also been adopted from Japan.
"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct, 2014 5:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Awesome! I know very little about the use of armour in the Indonesian and Philippine archipelagos outside of Java (where the evidence shows that it simply wasn't worn), so this has added significantly to my knowledge base on the subject. I wonder if there's any firm dating for the Buginese armors since both VOC and major Javanese kingdoms hired large numbers of mercenaries from Bugis in the early modern period and I have to wonder about whether these mercenaries would have worn such armour in any significant quantity.


Pieter B. wrote:
Did these guys fight in the Aceh wars?


Probably not, since the invasion of Aceh took place long after the Dutch colonial administration had replaced the VOC and established the KNIL as a regular army. The Dutch used local Acehnese allies and brought in semi-regular auxiliaries (trained and equipped in the European manner) from other parts of the East Indies, but I don't think there's any evidence for the continuation of the older practice of using allied/auxiliary troops with local/traditional equipment.
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Eric S




Location: new orleans
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lafayette C Curtis wrote:
Awesome! I know very little about the use of armour in the Indonesian and Philippine archipelagos outside of Java (where the evidence shows that it simply wasn't worn),


A couple of examples of armor that is said to be from Java.

Quote:
Java scale horn armor, collector not known. Purchased by the University of Oxford from Robert Henry Ramsden in 1878 and transferred from the Ashmolean Museum in 1886.This is a close-up of a panel of Javanese scale armour made out of pieces of horn. It forms part of sleeveless body armour of back- and breastplate, each comprised of 16 rows of 10cm horn segments. These are shaped, polished and overlapped to represent the scales of the pangolin (scaly anteater). Pitt River Museum.




This mail and plate armor was described as being from Java, I have no other information on it.
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct, 2014 7:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The attribution of those pieces to Java aren't that firm, and it's always possible that they were brought there by mercenaries from the other islands. Not to mention that European accounts of Javanese warriors almost never mention armour -- indeed, some specifically pointed out the lack of armour and contrasted it with the Javanese troops' suicidal bravery and aggressiveness (something they had in common with many other warrior cultures throughout the archipelago).
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Eric S




Location: new orleans
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct, 2014 7:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Pieter B. wrote:
Did these guys fight in the Aceh wars?


The Aceh warriors of Indonesia fought the Dutch for decades, many spent their whole lives living in the jungle and conducting guerrilla warfare against an advance European military force.

The Aceh wars was an example of the kind of brutal colonal warfare that took place all over the world during that time period, if you look at the Dutch now you do not see them as heartless butchers who would wipe out whole villages without mercy but when you look at some of the pictures from the war the savagery is apparent. Many of the problems we are facing today started in this time period, and all for some spice (pepper!!).


Quote:
Remnants of Koeta Reh village in Gayo Highlands after a vist by Kolonel Gotfried Coenraad Ernst van Daalen (1863-1930), Dutch colonel who devastate the Gayo-Alas area from February-July 1904, subjugating the highland tribes under Dutch rule. His method was known as van-daal-isme (van-daal-ism).





Quote:
Indonesian Aceh warriors 1897 with their daggers and rencong. The Aceh fought an extended war (Aceh War, also known as the Dutch War or the Infidel War) 1873–1914, it was an armed military conflict between the Sultanate of Aceh and the Netherlands. The war was part of a series of conflicts in the late 19th century that consolidated Dutch rule over modern day Indonesia.


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