Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Late period long-bladed seaxes? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page 1, 2  Next 
Author Message
Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,500

PostPosted: Fri 01 Aug, 2014 6:48 am    Post subject: Late period long-bladed seaxes?         Reply with quote

Hello everyone,

I am looking to commission a bloomery iron/shear steel, narrow-bladed broken-back seax with a 20 inch (ish) blade and long grip in the style of the Baegnoth and Battersea examples. I know that the Baegnoth has been dated to the 9-10th century. I am hoping that such blade and grip forms can be found on later examples, say late 11th to early 12th. century.

I already have the typical broader laded broken-back example from this period but wanted something longer and narrower.

Given the cost I want to get the historical details down.

What do folks think?
View user's profile Send private message
Brian Nelson




Location: Houghton, MI
Joined: 17 Mar 2012

Posts: 43

PostPosted: Fri 01 Aug, 2014 8:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm not sure about 12th century. My understanding is the seax was only prevalent into the 11th. But I think that Owen Bush is your man for this project.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 01 Aug, 2014 9:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy,

You'll probably want to see this thread if you have not already: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=30104. Long story short, we have visual evidence of seaxes being used, at least in some places, up to the close of the 12th century.
View user's profile Send private message
Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,500

PostPosted: Fri 01 Aug, 2014 11:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
Jeremy,

You'll probably want to see this thread if you have not already: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=30104. Long story short, we have visual evidence of seaxes being used, at least in some places, up to the close of the 12th century.


Oh, I am very sure that the broad bladed type seaxes were used into the 12th. century- ala the Honey Lane example.

I want to know if there are narrow longer broken-back seaxes datable to, say, the second half of the 11th. century.
View user's profile Send private message
Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,500

PostPosted: Mon 04 Aug, 2014 7:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So what do folks think is think is the latest date we can give to the manufacture of the longer, narrow-bladed broken-back seax?
View user's profile Send private message
James Moore





Joined: 27 Jan 2011

Posts: 61

PostPosted: Mon 04 Aug, 2014 8:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy, OK, I'm coming from this from a different angle:

Wouldnt a more pertinent question be:

Quote:
So what do folks think is the last geographical area and social group to cling onto the manufacture of the longer, narrow-bladed broken-back seax?


Once you have that question, you can start to think of when they stopped it.
View user's profile Send private message
Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,500

PostPosted: Mon 04 Aug, 2014 8:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

James Moore wrote:
Jeremy, OK, I'm coming from this from a different angle:

Wouldnt a more pertinent question be:

Quote:
So what do folks think is the last geographical area and social group to cling onto the manufacture of the longer, narrow-bladed broken-back seax?


Once you have that question, you can start to think of when they stopped it.


Well James,

If this phrasing better expresses the idea then fine.
View user's profile Send private message
James Moore





Joined: 27 Jan 2011

Posts: 61

PostPosted: Mon 04 Aug, 2014 12:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

sorry, I hope that comment didnt come over as pedantic or sarcastic.

I was more thinking, if I were looking for evidence of something, I'd first look at working out where they would likely continue to be used, and start looking at source material from there.

you're probably not going to see AS-style broken-back saxes in many depictions of English militaries post-1066, after all, as they've been supplanted by the Normans as the military elite, and the lower classes are being heavily repressed. So where to look? Ireland? Hebrides? Maybe. I'm not sure where else.

Does that make sense?
View user's profile Send private message
Jeffrey Faulk




Location: Georgia
Joined: 01 Jan 2011

Posts: 578

PostPosted: Mon 04 Aug, 2014 1:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For some reason, given the Norwegians' liking for seaxes I would think they may be where the long seaxes prevailed, evolving gradually into the single-edged Viking sword.

That's just off the top of my head, though.
View user's profile Send private message
Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,500

PostPosted: Tue 05 Aug, 2014 6:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I found this thread with a handy reference using a typology/geography/chronological reference developed by fellow forumite Kirk Lee Spencer.

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=18459

In my proposed project/recreation- which is the aim of this thread- I seem to be referring to type III and/or type IV longseaxes. According to this chart both had their greatest popularity during the 9th. c. with some being made or used (not sure if they were being made) into the early 11th. c.

These were anglo-saxon weapons and different in blade shape to Nordic seaxes/longseaxes.

So does anyone know of what dates have been assigned to SPECIFIC archeological examples of the type III and/or type IV longseax.

I am wondering if certain design elements would characterize a later example of this sub-type. I presume that given a 150 year era of manufacture and use some changes occurred.
View user's profile Send private message
G Ezell
Industry Professional



Location: North Alabama
Joined: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 232

PostPosted: Tue 05 Aug, 2014 8:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/download.php?id=1261
The Little Bealings seax is dated to the 10th century, and is one of my favorites. More information on it can be found here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=178901 and here: [url] http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=18002[/url]
With a 30 inch blade it would definitely qualify as a langsax. It is the latest dated one I've found yet, but I'll keep looking.

" I have found that it is very often the case that if you state some absolute rule of history, there will be an example, however extremely unusual, to break it."
Gabriel Lebec

https://www.facebook.com/relicforge
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,500

PostPosted: Wed 06 Aug, 2014 5:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

G Ezell wrote:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/download.php?id=1261
The Little Bealings seax is dated to the 10th century, and is one of my favorites. More information on it can be found here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=178901 and here: [url] http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=18002[/url]
With a 30 inch blade it would definitely qualify as a langsax. It is the latest dated one I've found yet, but I'll keep looking.


Thank you sir!

You have answered my question! I am looking for dates of examples- I realize it is next to impossible to answer the question of how long folks used such weapons given the less than scant pictorial or statuary evidence.

This is a beautiful seax indeed- and at 30 inches, very long- much longer than I would expect.
View user's profile Send private message
G Ezell
Industry Professional



Location: North Alabama
Joined: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 232

PostPosted: Wed 06 Aug, 2014 2:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My dating information for the Little Bealings seax came from "Anglo-Saxon Thegn AD 449-1066" by Mark Harrison, and seems about right. I am no expert, but in England one can see a definite shift in the culture occurring with the Norman conquest, it seems this is the point where the type III-IV seax-style knife, be it sword-sized or paring knife, goes from being very popular to out-dated, and begins to die out.

One day I will make a replica of the Little Bealings seax...

" I have found that it is very often the case that if you state some absolute rule of history, there will be an example, however extremely unusual, to break it."
Gabriel Lebec

https://www.facebook.com/relicforge
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
J. Nicolaysen




Location: Wyoming
Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Likes: 32 pages

Posts: 696

PostPosted: Wed 06 Aug, 2014 5:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
One day I will make a replica of the Little Bealings seax...


Hi George, is that a request for funding or just showing off? Big Grin
View user's profile Send private message
Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,500

PostPosted: Thu 07 Aug, 2014 5:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

G Ezell wrote:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/download.php?id=1261
The Little Bealings seax is dated to the 10th century, and is one of my favorites. More information on it can be found here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=178901 and here: [url] http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=18002[/url]
With a 30 inch blade it would definitely qualify as a langsax. It is the latest dated one I've found yet, but I'll keep looking.


Hi Mr. Ezell,

DO you know anything about the seas just above the Little Beatings in the photo you included? I like the shape on that one and it does appear to still be a longseax.
View user's profile Send private message
G Ezell
Industry Professional



Location: North Alabama
Joined: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 232

PostPosted: Thu 07 Aug, 2014 3:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy V. Krause wrote:
G Ezell wrote:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/download.php?id=1261
The Little Bealings seax is dated to the 10th century, and is one of my favorites. More information on it can be found here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=178901 and here: [url] http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=18002[/url]
With a 30 inch blade it would definitely qualify as a langsax. It is the latest dated one I've found yet, but I'll keep looking.


Hi Mr. Ezell,

DO you know anything about the seas just above the Little Beatings in the photo you included? I like the shape on that one and it does appear to still be a longseax.


Sadly, I know nothing about that one.

" I have found that it is very often the case that if you state some absolute rule of history, there will be an example, however extremely unusual, to break it."
Gabriel Lebec

https://www.facebook.com/relicforge
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
G Ezell
Industry Professional



Location: North Alabama
Joined: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 232

PostPosted: Thu 07 Aug, 2014 4:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J. Nicolaysen wrote:
Quote:
One day I will make a replica of the Little Bealings seax...


Hi George, is that a request for funding or just showing off? Big Grin


More of a statement of intent, setting a long term goal for myself....Happy

" I have found that it is very often the case that if you state some absolute rule of history, there will be an example, however extremely unusual, to break it."
Gabriel Lebec

https://www.facebook.com/relicforge
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,500

PostPosted: Thu 07 Aug, 2014 4:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So here is an image provided by Mr. Ezell. This seax has an 18 inche blade. Does anyone have any more information on it or would guess a date.



I am hoping for an example or solid views on the existence of narrow bladed seaxes (basically anything but broad-seax Honey Lane type) -post 900 (950 even better)- with a blade longer than say 15 inches. So far the only example I have seen is the 30 inch little beatings example.

I need something to contrast my beautiful broken back seas made by Tod and Owen.

View user's profile Send private message
J. Nicolaysen




Location: Wyoming
Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Likes: 32 pages

Posts: 696

PostPosted: Thu 07 Aug, 2014 6:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

George Ezell said:
Quote:
More of a statement of intent, setting a long term goal for myself....Happy



I think you will do it great justice and I know a lot of people here will be very excited to see it. Thanks for that other thread about it, it was interesting to read.


Jeremy V. Krause said:
Quote:
I need something to contrast my beautiful broken back seas made by Tod and Owen.


That is a really nice one. Please keep us posted on your journey for this narrow-blade type.
View user's profile Send private message
G Ezell
Industry Professional



Location: North Alabama
Joined: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 232

PostPosted: Thu 07 Aug, 2014 8:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy, it appears my estimate of 18 inches long was a bit off, according to this image it is closer to 13-14 inches (if it is indeed the same blade)... However, this image may also be useful in and of itself.


 Attachment: 34.41 KB
planche3.jpg


" I have found that it is very often the case that if you state some absolute rule of history, there will be an example, however extremely unusual, to break it."
Gabriel Lebec

https://www.facebook.com/relicforge
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Late period long-bladed seaxes?
Page 1 of 2 Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum