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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,289

PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2014 10:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
Hmm... I had not realized that the weapon was supposed to be stuck in a person, but now that you mention it, that interpretation makes sense. Oh well.

Pointy end goes in the other man.

Craig Peters wrote:
Perhaps it should not be considered a fantasy piece, but the hafted weapon to the far left is fairly unique. I wondered if it might be an instrument of torture, given the context of this image. However, the same weapon shows up again in the manuscript, and the second time, it is unambiguous that it is a weapon, not an instrument of torture. In form, its similar to a war hammer, save that it does not have a flat face for striking. This is from Politica & Economica.


If you notice the caption (Democracy) you'll see that these are three rulers or judges elected by the people. Importantly, the legal punishment of the stocks is considered more reasonable and just than being flayed, or dismembered under Tyrany's single king
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4953/14961/
or being decapitated or (by Saint Agatha!) tortured under Oligarchy where the rulers are bribed by the purse.
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4953/14962/

Perhaps the weapon in question is a mace with 4 spikes around a thrusting point?

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2014 11:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A mace seems like the most plausible interpretation to me. I don't know what made me think of war hammer. I guess it was seeing the three spikes, and thinking that the one looked like a top spike, and the second a back spike. But a mace makes more sense here.
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2014 11:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

On the right hand side, a messer-type sword with a very long grip, and a surprisingly short blade, in proportion to the grip.



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4869/13233/
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2014 11:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have generally omitted curved bladed swords from these images since they are quite common, and therefore not that unusual. In this case, the sword wielded in the upper right of the image seemed fairly distinct with the notch in its blade. Perhaps others better informed about these sorts of swords can clarify for me. Wink Also note the sword lying at the bottom of the image.



Source:http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4662/12674/
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 06 Jun, 2014 12:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The polearm on the right is particularly striking.



Source:http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4842/13654/
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 06 Jun, 2014 12:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another polearm. Sorry about the image quality; it's not great on Manuscript Miniatures either.



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4325/9697/
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 06 Jun, 2014 12:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A rather interesting polearm held by one of the three sleeping soldiers.



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/5462/18356/
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Mark T




PostPosted: Fri 06 Jun, 2014 12:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
On the right hand side, a messer-type sword with a very long grip, and a surprisingly short blade, in proportion to the grip.


A blade with that kind of circular notch out of the back is shown in Armi Bianche Italiane, from memory ... lots of good real 'fantasy' weapons are shown in that book.

Chief Librarian/Curator, Isaac Leibowitz Librarmoury

Schallern sind sehr sexy!
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 06 Jun, 2014 4:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The warrior with the Teutonic Knight's cross (although he's not a Teutonic Knight) has the weapon of interest here.



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4209/8889/


Last edited by Craig Peters on Fri 06 Jun, 2014 4:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 06 Jun, 2014 4:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The warrior with the large shield looks like he has some sort of club. Appropriately, it's from the Livre des Merveilles.



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4303/9820/
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 06 Jun, 2014 4:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Also from the Livre des Merveilles, another unusual polearm.



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4303/9823/
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 06 Jun, 2014 4:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A club with two heads.



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4683/13019/


Last edited by Craig Peters on Fri 06 Jun, 2014 3:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 06 Jun, 2014 5:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A massive bow, here wielded by a wild man.



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4943/14907/


Last edited by Craig Peters on Fri 06 Jun, 2014 11:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 06 Jun, 2014 5:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A third example of the peculiar weapon found in the Queen Mary Psalter. Either that, or it's a strange form of falchion- take your pick.



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/media/manuscr.../387-2.jpg
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 06 Jun, 2014 5:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The soldier here wields a fairly impressive sling.



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4698/10116/
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,289

PostPosted: Fri 06 Jun, 2014 9:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
Another polearm. Sorry about the image quality; it's not great on Manuscript Miniatures either.



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4325/9697/


The image is sourced through the BNF's Mandragore site, http://mandragore.bnf.fr/html/accueil.html , which has low resolution on the images. Fortunately, the BNF also has this manuscript available through it's Gallica site, http://gallica.bnf.fr/ , which has higher resolution and zoom function.

Source: http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b84521932/f294.item



 Attachment: 112.55 KB
BNF Franšais 598 fo142v.jpg
BNF Franšais 598 fo.142v

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 06 Jun, 2014 11:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A giant club belonging to a now slain giant in Guiron le Courtois. What's interesting is to compare and contrast this club with much of the modern fantasy artwork, which would most probably represent the club as having a head many times more massive than the one shown, and most likely a far shorter haft on the weapon. Even in creating this fantasy weapon, the medieval artist clearly shows an awareness of the weapon's form and function that many modern artists are either unaware of, or indifferent towards.



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/5182/16318/
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,289

PostPosted: Sat 07 Jun, 2014 10:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
On the right hand side, a messer-type sword with a very long grip, and a surprisingly short blade, in proportion to the grip.



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4869/13233/


Another long-gripped weapon from a copy of Ovid's Metamorphosis, BNF Franšais 373 fo.229r, c. 1400.
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8490152m/f461.item



 Attachment: 21.9 KB
BNF Franšais 373 fo229r.jpg


ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Tue 10 Jun, 2014 2:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm not really sure what to call the polearm that dominates the front portion of this painting of Christ before Caiaphas, although its size is massive and seems to border on fantasy-ish proportions. Note also the extremely long ahlspiess in the background.



Source: As the watermark indicates, it's from Imareal, bild 000305.
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Sun 03 Aug, 2014 10:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This one is post-medieval, judging from the appearance of the hilt, but does fit well into the category of fantasy-type weapons.



Source: The photo is Zach Luna's, taken at the British Museum.
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