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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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 Posted: Wed 10 Jun, 2015 9:52 am Post subject: Scale armor in the 15th century? |
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I'm aware of period iconography of scale armor being used in the 14th century. I'm unaware of seeing scale armor at all in the 15th century. Out of curiosity, is anyone aware of any examples, either existing or through iconography?
HistoricalHandcrafts.com
-Inspired by History, Crafted by Hand
"For practice is better than artfulness. Your exercise can do well without artfulness, but artfulness is not much good without the exercise.” -anonymous 15th century fencing master, MS 3227a
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Mart Shearer
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| Posted: Wed 10 Jun, 2015 11:11 am Post subject: |
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In the early 15th century it's not unusual to find scale skirts, sabatons, or aventails. Are you looking for complete scale body armors instead?
http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/mi02308g13a.jpg
ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Wed 10 Jun, 2015 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, that's exactly what I was looking for.  How late do we see these kinds of defenses? Particularly scale faulds like the one you linked to?
HistoricalHandcrafts.com
-Inspired by History, Crafted by Hand
"For practice is better than artfulness. Your exercise can do well without artfulness, but artfulness is not much good without the exercise.” -anonymous 15th century fencing master, MS 3227a
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Mart Shearer
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| Posted: Wed 10 Jun, 2015 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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At least to mid-century. Styles really start changing when sallets get popular, and I haven't done as much research in the later 15th century.
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/3932/10786/
The desire for doing things in the antique style (Polish, "Sarmatian"-style, scale armors into the 17th century springs to mind) gives some odd constructions like this late 16th century scale-covered peascod breast -
I'm sure I've seen some steel breastplates embossed with scale patterns too, so interpretation of statuary and manuscripts can be challenging.
ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Luka Borscak
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| Posted: Wed 10 Jun, 2015 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Mart, is that a steel breastplate covered in bone scales? Looks beautiful.
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Mart Shearer
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| Posted: Wed 10 Jun, 2015 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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https://www.hermitage.nl/en/tentoonstellingen/alexander_de_grote/hoogtepunten.htm
Picture caption says ivory, description says bone plaques. Which is correct? Perhaps carved ivory and bone scales?
| Quote: | Breastplate from a cuirass, Italy, late 16th century, Steel, ivory, forged, carved
This steel breastplate is covered with round bone platelets and (lion) masks. The soldier in the central portrait wears a helmet with a crest in the form of a mythical creature, the hydra. The cuirass imitates scale armour, which was used from antiquity. |
And an odd one in the Stibbert in Florence:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/d_a_biggs/17143135460/in/album-72157649967970943/
ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Michael Curl
Location: Northern California, US Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 487
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Mark Griffin
Location: The Welsh Marches, in the hills above Newtown, Powys. Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 802
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| Posted: Wed 17 Jun, 2015 1:44 am Post subject: |
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The Stibbert one is a one piece steel breastplate that's had repousse scales put in, its not seperate scales.
Currently working on projects ranging from Elizabethan pageants to a WW1 Tank, Victorian fairgrounds 1066 events and more. Oh and we joust loads!.. We run over 250 events for English Heritage each year plus many others for Historic Royal Palaces, Historic Scotland, the National Trust and more. If you live in the UK and are interested in working for us just drop us a line with a cv.
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Richard Miller
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| Posted: Thu 18 Jun, 2015 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Picture caption says ivory, description says bone... |
Ivory and bone can be interchangeable terms. Whale bone is considered ivory as is tusk and tooth from other mammals. The only calcified material that comes from mammals never referred to as ivory is horn or antler.
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Mark Griffin
Location: The Welsh Marches, in the hills above Newtown, Powys. Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 802
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| Posted: Thu 18 Jun, 2015 1:40 am Post subject: |
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And if you wanted a helmet to with that scale peascod....
 Attachment: 54.51 KB
Currently working on projects ranging from Elizabethan pageants to a WW1 Tank, Victorian fairgrounds 1066 events and more. Oh and we joust loads!.. We run over 250 events for English Heritage each year plus many others for Historic Royal Palaces, Historic Scotland, the National Trust and more. If you live in the UK and are interested in working for us just drop us a line with a cv.
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Heath Barlin
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Jasper B.
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| Posted: Thu 06 Aug, 2015 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| Mart Shearer wrote: | https://www.hermitage.nl/en/tentoonstellingen/alexander_de_grote/hoogtepunten.htm
Picture caption says ivory, description says bone plaques. Which is correct? Perhaps carved ivory and bone scales?
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In the Dutch version of the website, the description reads (italics mine):
| Quote: | Borststuk van een kuras, Italië, eind 16de eeuw, Staal, been, gesmeed, gesneden, © State Hermitage Museum, St Petersburg
Dit stalen borststuk is bedekt met ronde benen plaatjes en afbeeldingen van (leeuwen)maskers. Op het centrale portret draagt de soldaat een helm met een kam in de vorm van een mythisch wezen, de hydra. De kuras imiteert een geschubd pantser, sinds de oudheid een bekend type harnas. |
The Dutch word 'been' means bone and won't be used to mean ivory (='ivoor' in Dutch). In other words, the breastplate is made of 'steel and bone, forged and cut'.
J.B.
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This is a standard topic