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Etienne Terpant
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 Posted: Fri 08 Nov, 2013 3:43 pm Post subject: Romanian (Vlad III Basarab ) armor ? |
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Hello
I'm looking for informations about armors that could have been used by the famous Vlad III and his troops during the war against the Ottoman. I read the several (but old) topic on the subject here. Most things we have about Vlad himself represent him only in civilian clothes, but I hoppe that some of you could tell me more about what was used by nobles of the area for battle ?
I would be very interrested to know if they were influenced mainly by the west because of there christian culture, or by the ottoman neightbours. I would also be very interressed by getting details on helmets...
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Etienne Terpant
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| Posted: Mon 18 Nov, 2013 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Little Up, just in case ...
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David Lewis Smith
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Etienne Terpant
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| Posted: Mon 18 Nov, 2013 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Would love too  But I don't live in Romania
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David Lewis Smith
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| Posted: Mon 18 Nov, 2013 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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Look for armour Cira 1450, both Ottoman and European. Vlad stood in defence of all of Europe for a while, his troops would have armour from lots of places.
He would probably be in the latests 'Tech' for the time, well appointed, armed and armored
David L Smith
MSG (RET)
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David Lewis Smith
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Ruel A. Macaraeg
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| Posted: Mon 18 Nov, 2013 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| David Lewis Smith wrote: | | Vlad stood in defence of all of Europe for a while |
Might be a bit too generous to say he "stood in defense of all of Europe," since a great many Europeans (including ethnic Romanians) preferred to side with the Ottomans against their European enemies, from the 1300s onward. The role of the Dracula dynasty has especially been overrated in this regard. The Ottomans arguably had the best military of that time, which routinely defeated very powerful kingdoms all around it, often simultaneously. There's no way the little Wallachian principality could stand against the Ottoman advance, and in fact it didn't -- by the mid-1400s it was swept up into the Empire just like the rest of the Balkans.
See for example Murphey 1999 and Almond 2009 for good discussions of the anti-Ottoman myth, which I've transcribed here: http://www.forensicfashion.com/PositionStatem...tions.html
http://ForensicFashion.com/CostumeStudies.html
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David Lewis Smith
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| Posted: Mon 18 Nov, 2013 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Ruel A. Macaraeg wrote: | | l |
I want to keep the focus of this thread upon arms and armour in the the mid 1400s, nothing more. I am saying that in 1450 Romania there was a mix of Armour and weapons from east and west.
I am looking at the physical and not the philosophical. If my last post was not exact in that point I apologize
David L Smith
MSG (RET)
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Henrik Zoltan Toth
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| Posted: Tue 19 Nov, 2013 1:09 am Post subject: |
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See for example Murphey 1999 and Almond 2009 for good discussions of the anti-Ottoman myth, which I've transcribed here: http://www.forensicfashion.com/PositionStatem...ml[/quote]
Did I understand that correctly?? An army of 100 000 hungarians? Holy Moly  I don't think that we got so many soldiers until the revolution in 1848. The hungarians stood since the 1390's almost permanent in war with the ottomans, I think it's not a shame they broke at the and of the 1600's.
Hungarians vs. Moldavians, Thuróczy Chronicle:
http://m.cdn.blog.hu/ny/nyelvisztan/image/moldav-magyar2.jpg
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Ruel A. Macaraeg
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| Posted: Tue 19 Nov, 2013 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Did I understand that correctly?? An army of 100 000 hungarians? |
I'll confer the book's notes to see how that number was calculated. :-)
| Quote: | | I think it's not a shame they broke at the and of the 1600's. |
There is no shame that anyone was defeated by the Ottomans during this time, even the major states like the Habsburgs, Poles, or Safavids. The 15thc. Ottoman military and state were simply better managed than their opponents' at that time, and it shows in the success they enjoyed throughout that period.
| Quote: | | I am looking at the physical and not the philosophical. |
The two are related -- both suffer from the false dichotomies of "East/West" and "European/Islamic." These categories don't reflect the realities of the cultures involved, especially regarding arms and armor. There's no clear line between "eastern" and "western" weapons and it's better to abandon those concepts as unhelpful to research.
http://ForensicFashion.com/CostumeStudies.html
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Romulus Stoica
Location: Hunedoara, Transylvania, Romania Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Tue 19 Nov, 2013 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | ... I am saying that in 1450 Romania there was a mix of Armour and weapons from east and west. ... |
There is no such thing as XV century Romania ... Then there were 3 principalities or vayewodates (or you may say dukedoms), Transylvania, that was vassal to the King of Hungary, so part of the Kingdom of Hungary, but with it's own vayewode (equivalent to a duke) and it's own army, Wallachia and Moldavia (that was twice bigger than the present day Moldavia that is part of Romania, because there was also Bucowina, Bessarabia and part of Pokuttya).
So this is about what kind of armor Vlad III, Vayewode of Wallachia (1431–1476) would have used.
I am living in Romania and I am part of the small reenactment comunity here. I know a few things about XV century equipment since this is the period my reenactment group is reenacting.
I would say that Vlad III would have used something more similar to transitional armor from late XIV century that some latest hight-tech (for XV century  ... ) model milanese armor. There is no complete (or almost complete) XV century milanese armor (nor gothic either) in romanian museums. The colection in Peleş castle is from XVI or XVII century and the pieces were bought from western europe or received as gifts by the romanian royal family. Peleş is a new castle, built in XIX century, its inauguration was held in 1883.
What original XV century pieces that can be found are mostly mail shirts and hauberks, simple breastplates, simple pauldrons, knees and elbows, mostly one piece. Wallachia does not have significant iron resources so most of its iron and steel was imported from Transylvania, so the principal source of weapons and armor were the armorer guilds of the Transylvanian Saxons. Maybe some milanese armor pieces were exported to Walachia but usualy the exported equipment was not of the latest model. There is much to talk about ant there are many factors to reckon... but this is something to start from...
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Etienne Terpant
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| Posted: Wed 20 Nov, 2013 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your answer Romulus.
This was very instructive. I would be interressed if you have, by details on Helmets and shields from Vallachia in that time ?
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This is a standard topic
