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Jason Adams




Location: Gibsonburg OH
Joined: 03 Dec 2004

Posts: 60

PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 4:19 pm    Post subject: What do you guys do with your swords?         Reply with quote

Ok, so Ive been on the board for a short while now and gotten a feel for the mood and I think I can get away with asking what is probably a weird question:

What do all of you do with your swords/weapons? Obviously, a great many of you are students of the martial realms. But, do you go to shows? Hold shows? Hang them on your walls? Bug the neighbor? "Yes, I know; you got a new sword, AGAIN."

So what?

Me? I'm a reenactor, so I look for blades that can be used on a re-enactment battlefield and I show them off there. Where do you guys show you stuff off at? BESIDES here! Razz

Is anyone in the Mid-west/East coast/Pittsburgh area looking to re-enact? hint hint, nudge nudge, wink wink.

Interested,

~Jason Banditt Adams
www.Rogue-Artist.com
illustrator and concept designer

15C re-enactor:
www.GothicGermany.org
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Gordon Frye




Location: Kingston, Washington
Joined: 20 Apr 2004
Reading list: 15 books

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Posts: 1,191

PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 6:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Jason, noticed you over on the Firestryker board too. Fun to see such cross-references going on.

Well now, what do I do with my toys? Interesting question, and it bears on a theme that I have discussed with friends many times over the years. One of the points is that some people who reinact (which I certainly do) go for the blunt-edged weapons (since it's a really good idea not to actually draw blood with your opponents), while others prefer "real" weapons that are sharp, work, etc. Just as some folks who do faires and such are happy to carry around non-functioning firearms, while others have to have the real thing, "just because". Makes you wonder who is the more nuts, the guy packing what is quite plainly a non-functioning weapon in a non-real environment, or the guy who has to have the real thing, sharp swords, real guns (even if with no ammo) at a non-real event. I count myself among the later, BTW.

Lord knows how many periods I've "reinacted", some are more reinactment than others (kind of hard to call Cowboy Action Shooting a reinactment, and it's equally hard to call a "train robbery" for a steam-railroad much of a reinactment either, but they'll have to do), some with guns only (like WWII) some with mostly swords and pole-arms (Landsknecht stuff). But it always has to be with "real" weapons (though for a while I had a blank-fire-only BREN Light Machine Gun with an aluminum receiver, and it would have been virtually impossible to buy a real one, but it still bothered me to own it because it wasn't "real", so I eventually sold it.) The swords have to cut and/or stab, the firearms have to shoot, and it bothers my soul to own any item that LOOKS like it ought to work, but doesn't.

What do I DO with such things then? Swords mostly just get carried, sometime I smack things with them but never "cross swords" with anyone... strikes me as about on par with pointing loaded guns at people so I save that sort of work for waisters. Guns? Well, sometimes I fire blanks in the general direction of folks, but mostly use them on ranges knocking over iron or making holes in paper. Periods? Now adays mostly Renaissance, but in the past darned near every period that might have had guns in it, LOL!

I know this doesn't really answer your post, but it got me to thinking, and wondered what others thought on this subject.

Cheers,

Gordon

Anyway, that's

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Tom Carr




Location: Mesquite TX
Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Posts: 147

PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 11:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As for myself, it is more of a historical matter. Not re-enactment, but a matter of connecting to a field of study that I have been facinated by for years. As for what I do with them, I have cutting meets twice a year at my house and generally have about 7 fellow sword addicts that come for cutting and fellowship. We show off new stuff and try out each others toys and then have a big meal. We have a pretty good time and learn a good bit about different types of bladed weapons. They can run the gamut from swords, axes, daggers, pole arms, shields and armour. We tend to take a whole lot of pics, including one trick photo. We had an entire forum thinking we cut a brick in half with a Chen Wind and Thunder once. Heheheh! Wink
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,459

PostPosted: Wed 08 Dec, 2004 6:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

At this point I lean them in a spare closet.

And there they sit.

"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy
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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 2,256

PostPosted: Wed 08 Dec, 2004 6:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like to put on my kilt and go out to the back yard and swing my claymores around wildly, while screaming obscene remarks in Gaelic. It's lotsa fun, good excersise , and I have yet to encounter a neighbor getting too nosey. I wont discuss what I wear when I go out with my Celtic swords. Eek! Laughing Out Loud ...........MCM.
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Eric Spitler




Location: PA
Joined: 07 Aug 2004

Posts: 73

PostPosted: Wed 08 Dec, 2004 8:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I pretend cardboard boxes are my boss Evil Big Grin
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Joel Chesser




Location: Oklahoma
Joined: 23 Oct 2003

Posts: 714

PostPosted: Wed 08 Dec, 2004 9:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have a sword stand that I built last summer and they just sit in my room to be admired and handled every now and again.
..." The person who dosen't have a sword should sell his coat and buy one."

- Luke 22:36
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James Aldrich




Location: Green Bay WI
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 112

PostPosted: Wed 08 Dec, 2004 10:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This question reminds me of the time I was in a store picking up a firearm the day after the Brady Bill went into effect. I suspected the press might be lurking so I dressed extra stereotypically in hope of being noticed. Sure enough, an aspiring journalist from one of the local TV outlets stuck microphone in my face and asked me why I owned guns.

Well, sez I, a couple are for hunting, a couple are for target shooting, and a couple are for backyard plinking. But the most important ones are those I own just because the gummint would rather I didn't.

As far as I know, I didn't make the evening news.

As for swords, a couple are for cutting, a few are for fencing, some are for re-enacting, some are for educational purposes, but the most important ones are just because they are magnificent examples of the synthesis of ideas, materials, and skills.

JSA
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Jason Adams




Location: Gibsonburg OH
Joined: 03 Dec 2004

Posts: 60

PostPosted: Thu 09 Dec, 2004 10:50 am    Post subject: Very cool!         Reply with quote

I see! Quite a variant in responses.

Tom Carr: A cutting meet would be quite fun I imagine! What things do you have at? I hear a lot about pumpkins on these boards! What about non-sharpened blades like Calvary sabres, do they get kept out of it, or taken against different objects altogether?

Joe Fults: Thats' ok! It feels good just to own such fantastic pieces of the human essence for working natural materials into something beautiful, doesn't it?

Mark Moore: I know a lot of folks like you; and if I had a kilt, who is to say I wouldn't do the same?! Laughing Out Loud

Eric Spitler: I like your idea the best!!! ROTFLMFAO!!! That is great!

Joel Chesser: A stand is something I am looking into as well. I sure don't have enough pieces to necessitate one, but its an object of goals.

James Aldrich: I wish that bit HAD made the news! That'd give all of us with brains something good to laugh at, at the expense of "them gummint"! I got myself a CZ-52 almost a year ago and was pleasantly suprised how painless the ordeal was. I filled out my form, dude made a phone call, and I walked home with it in a paper bag. That easy.

Now, the fun thing would be telling the media some of my guns are for target-shooting, some of my blades are for "can-opening" on my friends in armour, and the 7 pound Parrot smooth-bore at my fathers' house is for keeping a bunch of rusty washing machines in the junk pile from rising up and revolting one day!! Laughing Out Loud (I re-enact a lot of different periods)

This has been a really cool thread so far! I hope we get more replies Big Grin

Loving it,

~Jason Banditt Adams
www.Rogue-Artist.com
illustrator and concept designer

15C re-enactor:
www.GothicGermany.org
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Alexandria, VA USA
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PostPosted: Thu 09 Dec, 2004 11:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I practice 17 c. Italian rapier and 14-15 c. German longsword (through the Liechtanauer tradition), so I have several swords specifically for practicing with a partner. My sharps I collect for a few reasons. One is that since I practice arts designed for sharpened weapons, I think it's important to own at least one sharp example of each of the weapons I practice. Doing solo drills always with a blunt can sometimes make one lazy and get sloppy with certain techniques, but doing the same drills with a sharp can help remind you to be aware of your own edge. I also do cutting drills with the sharps, because that is an element of swordsmanship that bouting with safety weapons does not teach: How to follow through with the cut properly, making sure your edge alignment is correct, striking with the appropriate speed and angle, etc.

And ultimately, it's because I love these things, and the more I study about them, the more I want to own more. Happy
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R. Laine




Location: Peru
Joined: 28 Oct 2003

Posts: 106

PostPosted: Thu 09 Dec, 2004 12:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I collect swords for largely the same reasons as Bill does, although I'm unfortunately limited to doing solo drills and pell-work at the moment, not being able to practise with a group. Other than that...

"Muzzy, why do you eat clocks?"
"Because I like them, of course."

- from Big Muzzy in Gondoland Happy

Rabbe
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Lloyd Clark




Location: Beaver Dam, WI
Joined: 08 Sep 2004

Posts: 508

PostPosted: Thu 09 Dec, 2004 1:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I must admit that I use and abuse them much as they would have been (sans against real human bodies) back in the day. But I do tend to treat them like babies once they are back in the house.

I really love cutting things from horseback and have actually come up with an idea, after much research and watching far too many Mythbuster episodes, on replicating a human torso, arms, neck, and head out of a combination of ballistic gel and gel candle mix. Once I get a dummy made from this, I am going to be doing quite a bit of testing different weapons against different armour combinations. Eek! Eek! Eek!

Cheers,

Lloyd Clark
2000 World Jousting Champion
2004 World Jousting Bronze Medalist
Swordmaster
Super Proud Husband and Father!
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Jason Adams




Location: Gibsonburg OH
Joined: 03 Dec 2004

Posts: 60

PostPosted: Thu 09 Dec, 2004 1:48 pm    Post subject: fantastic         Reply with quote

Fantastic!

Lloyd Clark: Knowing what I do about Industrial Design Tech, you dont need to put a lot of money down on replicating "squichy" things. After you make a mold of a dummy, Coat the inside of that mold with a releasing agent like PAM or vasaline and then layer it with this:

Mix Clear or White Indistrial silicone, like is used to caulk showers and tubs, with Paint thinner. Get a nice "jello" consistancy and then start coating the mold halves in layers. Once a decent layer is built up (maybe a half-inch to an inch) put the mould together and pour in the mixture a bit at a time, spinning the mold to get it to coat evenly. This is a very inexpensive and yet correct consistancy for "fleshy things"

How fancy you get is up to you, if you want to fire pottery bones and toss those in it, or whatever. Wink Would make a Fantastic study on the effects of blunt trauma on bones!!! Mace anyone?

Bill Grandy & Rabbe Jan-Olof Laine: The techniques with Sharpened edges is a VERY good point! (no pun intended) Seriously, bashing is one thing, but cutting is something else entirely!

Hey, if anyone is studying some of these late medieval manuals; like we here in Pittsburgh are doing talhoffers edicts on the Fechbuch, please feel free to let me know if you will be in our area! We would love to have some more learned sparring partners, or even less learned sparring partners with which to share the knowledge! Keep in mind, we only deal with blunted rebated steel, wasters and re-enacting. Safety over curiosity! Wink

Feel free to hit up our website and see what we are all about:
http://history.uber-geek.us

Come on down!

~Jason Banditt Adams
www.Rogue-Artist.com
illustrator and concept designer

15C re-enactor:
www.GothicGermany.org
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Tom Carr




Location: Mesquite TX
Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Posts: 147

PostPosted: Fri 10 Dec, 2004 12:11 am    Post subject: Re: Very cool!         Reply with quote

Jason Adams wrote:
I

Tom Carr: A cutting meet would be quite fun I imagine! What things do you have at? I hear a lot about pumpkins on these boards! What about non-sharpened blades like Calvary sabres, do they get kept out of it, or taken against different objects altogether?
Loving it,


As for what we cut, mostly 2 litre soda bottles, pumpkins and heavy carpet rolls when I can find them. We dont have any unsharpened blades, and that includes a friends WWII Japanese cavalry saber. My current list of toys includes, MRL Basket hilt ( heavily reworked) MRL Irish ring hilt (being reworked) MRL Arbedo, Windlass Sword of Ulrich ( not bad for the price I got it for) , MRL Medieval Short sword ( Best cutter for the price) AT 1415 ( my baby and sword of choose) and a 250-300 year old Indian Rajputs fighting Tulwar. All very sharp! Mostly I use the AT and the short sword for cutting on a regular basis, but the Tulwar gets pulled out for demonstration cutting when I have a meet. The tulwar is a bit different than others I have seen as it is very light and flexible. I suspect the blade is wootz, but it has such a lovely patina that I dont want to mess with it.
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Jason Adams




Location: Gibsonburg OH
Joined: 03 Dec 2004

Posts: 60

PostPosted: Fri 10 Dec, 2004 8:53 am    Post subject: Patina         Reply with quote

Very nice indeed Tom. Say, speaking of Patina, you wouldnt happen to know how they simulate the patina on reproductions would you? Hanwei has a new bastard sword comming out I want, but so far, it is slated for patina only. The retailer Im getting it through is getting me one hell of a deal; but I want to use it for re-enacting. This in mind, I worry about this:

Though the patina looks fantastic and I would love to have it that way, I worry that the process uses some kind of corrosive material that might cause excessive pitting on the blade, including the faux edge. Would this corrosion make the blade bitter or weaken it in any way? Pitting on the faux edge, though easily enough to file off, may return with a vengeance after a few clashes on the battlefield. These are a safety concern for my fellow reenactors. Safety is my #1 goal, how cool it looks comes second. I wont endeanger someone knowingly.

So what is the forced patina they are applying to repro blades all about?

in the need to know,

~Jason Banditt Adams
www.Rogue-Artist.com
illustrator and concept designer

15C re-enactor:
www.GothicGermany.org
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Gary Grzybek




Location: Stillwater N.J.
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 559

PostPosted: Fri 10 Dec, 2004 9:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

First and foremost I'm a practitioner of WMA's but also love collecting. My current swords consist of high end cutters and blunt trainers. My favorite pieces will experience some form of test cutting but only one or two will be used on the more heavier targets. I love to use them but don't care for the excessive wear and tear.
Gary Grzybek
ARMA Northern N.J.
www.armastudy.org
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Tom Carr




Location: Mesquite TX
Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Posts: 147

PostPosted: Fri 10 Dec, 2004 9:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are a couple of good ways that are easy on the metal. Plain yellow mustard dabbed on the metal, allowed to dry and cleaned off and warmed apple cider vinager. Both work well, but the vinager is a bit smelly. There are a couple of threads that detail the process. Just do a search for (patina).
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William Goodwin




Location: Roanoke,Va
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Fri 10 Dec, 2004 9:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Guess I'm more of a collector than a practitioner. Tho, lately I've been getting asked to do more presentations and demos,
so I've had to steal some time from my ECW & Mortuary research to prepare stuff on 17th c. cut & thrust / rapier swordsmanship.

As far as the patina question, Sean Flynt wrote a fine article - www.myArmoury.com/feature_antique.html
on the subject. Kirk L. Spencer has done some good looking things as well.

Here is a pic of a cheap rapier I did by using the "mustard method".


Bill



 Attachment: 80.1 KB
acid etch swept hilt.jpg


Roanoke Sword Guilde

roanokeswordguilde@live.com
"I was born for this" - Joan of Arc
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Eric Meulemans
Industry Professional



Location: Southern Wisconsin
Joined: 30 Nov 2003
Reading list: 18 books

Posts: 163

PostPosted: Fri 10 Dec, 2004 10:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lloyd Clark wrote:
I really love cutting things from horseback and have actually come up with an idea, after much research and watching far too many Mythbuster episodes, on replicating a human torso, arms, neck, and head out of a combination of ballistic gel and gel candle mix. Once I get a dummy made from this, I am going to be doing quite a bit of testing different weapons against different armour combinations. Eek! Eek! Eek!


Some months ago, on either the History or Discovery channel, there was featured an episode in which replica human torsos were crafted from resins, reconstituted leather and gelatin, for the purposes of exploring the methods of Mayan sacrifice. A flint knife was used to cut out a heart (internal organs were accurately replicated). I cannot find information on that episode, or the lab which made the dummies, but they were the result of studying the effects of landmines and explosives.

The following articles may be of interest:

http://www.dsto.defence.gov.au/corporate/publ...page1.html
http://www.dsto.defence.gov.au/corporate/publ...tific.html

-Eric
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Kirk Lee Spencer




Location: Texas
Joined: 24 Oct 2003

Spotlight topics: 6
Posts: 820

PostPosted: Fri 10 Dec, 2004 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Patina         Reply with quote

Jason Adams wrote:
Hanwei has a new bastard sword comming out I want, but so far, it is slated for patina only. The retailer Im getting it through is getting me one hell of a deal; but I want to use it for re-enacting. This in mind, I worry about this...




Hi Jason...
I saw the antiqued versions of Hanwei swords at the Atlanta Bladeshow. I did not ask how they did the antiquing (the man in the booth did not seem very knowledgable or helpful). It appears to me that they coated the blade with some strong acid and allowed the acid to eat into the surface where it pooled. Along the boundaries between the acid pools and the uncovered surfaces the acid works more intensely for some reason. It leaves an etched line. My general impression was that this relatively rapid way of adding random surface etching would do nothing at all to weaken the blade. If you are worried about a Hanwei blade failing it will probably happen because of a course grain structure in their damascus blades or the design that carries a deep fuller into the tang section.

ks

Two swords
Lit in Edenís flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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