Sutton Hoo question for Paul Craddock. -- myArmoury.com

Jean Thibodeau · Posted: Sun 05 Dec, 2004 11:19 pm Post subject:

Another big head here 23" but with liners and or wearing a maille coif under a helm 24" seems to work for me: I have no idea what is considered average! Now I am getting a concerned about about it...........LOL.

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Mon 06 Dec, 2004 3:15 am Post subject:

Pamela Muir · Posted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 4:03 am Post subject: possibly a silly question...

Please pardon me, I'm still new to all of this, but curiosity finally got the better of me and I have to ask...

Is that gold colored portion a mustache ? Is it decoration or does it have a purpose?

Thanks.

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 7:15 am Post subject: Re: possibly a silly question...

Matt Corbin · Posted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 8:34 am Post subject: Re: possibly a silly question...

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 8:49 am Post subject: Re: possibly a silly question...

Pamela Muir · Posted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: possibly a silly question...

Andrew Lang · Posted: Wed 08 Dec, 2004 6:20 pm Post subject:

Hello!
I've lurked on this forum for some time, but was looking for info on the Hanwei Coppergate helmet and ran across this post. Since I am new, I will apologize ahead of time if this post is not appropriate. Anyhow, there is a fellow who is selling these helmets on an auction site www.gunbroker.com (search for Coppergate). I picked mine up for 399.99. I was a little nervous as very little info exists on the helmet. This site was the only site that I found any meaningful information. Well the helmet arrived this afternoon and I have to say I was quite impressed with it. I will attempt to post some images I took of the helmet. I have the book by Dominic Tweedle on the Coppergate helmet and pulled it out as reference.
I am still in the honeymoon phase, but have examined the helmet pretty well. I have been a "fan" of the Coppergate helmet for some time and have some knowledge on it. In construction the Chen helmet is very close to the original. Tweedle shows an exploded view of the helmet and the repro follows the construction of the helmet down to the little parts and pieces of the helmet (notably the noseguard/eyebrow and cheek pieces). The helmet appears to be about 18 gauge and weighs a bit over 4 pounds. The detail on the nose guard, eyebrow, and terminal ends matches very well to the original. The construction of the helmet is tight and sturdy. The helmet is lined on the interior with a material that looks like leather but is actually some kind of faux suede or velvet type material. Still pretty nice. The latin inscription on the main band and cross band match the original pretty well ... even to the point that it is in reverse (mirror image) as the original was.
My hat size is 7 3/4 and the helmet fit me fine (I was worried with my big head that it would be too small).
A few complaints about the helmet ... some are small and some are big.
The latin inscription on the band is acid etched rather than in repousse as the original. I would not really expect any different from a $400 helmet ... but it is of note.
While the hinges are correct in number of fingers for the hinge itself, the hinges only have a front which connects to the outside of the helmet. The correct hinges would have had faces on the outside and inside of the helmet.
My main fault with the helmet is the mail guard. They went to such detail like the wire that ran through the mail and the alloy fixing points on the cheek pieces and the mail guard even alternates between riveted links and welded (to simulate the forge welded links I assume) .as the original had, yet the mail guard is hung the wrong way on the helmet. You can see this in the pictures. I am not quite sure why they would have done this unless it was for looks.
Overall I am very happy and impressed with the helmet. I think it is well worth the $400 I paid. Hope this helps others thinking about this helmet.
Best regards,
Andrew Lang

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Wed 08 Dec, 2004 7:31 pm Post subject:

Hello Andrew and thanks for the information.

Great pics!

What kind of maille is that, Indian?

Gregory J. Liebau · Posted: Wed 08 Dec, 2004 9:37 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the information on it, Andrew! I can't seem to scrounge up a picture of the original, currently, so I'm confused about how the mail is hung improperly. What's wrong with it?

I can't see your pictures... Perhaps you'll be able to repost them directly to the site sometime, from a regular photo file on your PC? They'll last longer.

Cheers!

-Gregory-

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

Andrew -

Our site sent too much traffic to your geocities hosting services and the images were not available for most to see. I've edited your post to have them attached, instead, and have sized them down to make them easier to view.

Cheers!

Andrew Lang · Posted: Thu 09 Dec, 2004 3:07 am Post subject:

Patrick,
The mail that I am wearing is some of Forth's 8mm wedge riveted stuff. I believe he is having that made in India.
Best regards,
Andrew Lang

Andrew Lang · Posted: Thu 09 Dec, 2004 3:14 am Post subject:

Gregory,
I should have taken a better picture of the mail to show it but the "rows" run perpendicular to the base of the helmet and thus the mail opens. As you have seen most mail shirts on a body the rows run horizontally and the mail closes together. They hung the mail on the helmet 90 degrees out of whack. The mail on the repro is also "V" shaped in the back.
You can get some idea on the mail from the picture of the original. (Here is a link)
http://www.yorkarchaeology.co.uk/artefacts/copphelm1.htm
I plan to remove this mail and replace it with some of the wedge riveted stuff from Forth Armoury that I have.
Best regards,
Andrew Lang

Andrew Lang · Posted: Thu 09 Dec, 2004 3:15 am Post subject:

Nathan,
Thanks for doing that. The free geocities accounts have very limited bandwith.
Best regards,
Andrew Lang

Gregory J. Liebau · Posted: Thu 09 Dec, 2004 5:49 pm Post subject:

Ah, I can see the photos now! Cool, cool! Thanks for the explanation on the Mail, Andrew... I was deeply confused about what the problem was, but understand now, for the most part!

Now, since we can all see the helmet on your head and know you have it, to get the question out of our system, may we ask you to make a measurement of the inside circumference of the helmet? This would probably help some of us with future purchases and interests in using it beyond it's display values..!

Thanks.

-Gregory-

Andrew Lang · Posted: Fri 17 Dec, 2004 6:52 am Post subject:

Gregory,
Sorry about taking so long to post this ... but the circumfrence is a bit hard to tell as the helmet is open faced ... but it is about 27".
Hope this helps.

Gregory J. Liebau · Posted: Tue 21 Dec, 2004 6:31 pm Post subject:

Gabriel Lebec · myArmoury Team

So I'm taking an Old English / Anglo-Saxon language-history-literature-medieval studies-Beowulf cross-listed super-seminar, and I'm suddenly obsessed with the pertinent arms and armor (finally found out what "Sutton Hoo" is Wink

). Patrick, did you ever recieve the helm? Is a review possibly in the works??

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Thu 27 Jan, 2005 2:40 pm Post subject:

Gregory J. Liebau · Posted: Sun 30 Jan, 2005 12:38 pm Post subject:

Medieval Reproductions has about the worst pricing I've ever seen in my life! You can get the same quality of work from many armorers like White Mountain, Knight's Armoury, Manning Imperial, Lonely Mountain, Crescent Moon, and others for WAY less money... Even Halberds over at The Armour Archive could make a perfect example for less money, with his steep pricing, I'll bet!

But, it's your pocketbook, I guess... Medieval Reproductions is a very nice armory, but I don't think they can justify their prices with competition charging so much less for the same level of quality and complexity...

For example... Craig Sitch of Manning Imperial Armoury in Australia sells this piece for about $255 US Dollars, as it's shown here... Custom made to costumer specifications...

And it's page is here...
http://www.manningimperial.com/item.php?item_id=228

No lining in that, but if it WERE put it, it would still be wayyy cheaper than the Medieval Reproductions piece, and it has an aventail, already! Making the Aventail in Spring steel only brings the price up about $30, and having decorated oculars is only an additional $20 or so on top of that!

-Gregory-