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Danny S.




Location: Australia
Joined: 26 Jul 2012

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul, 2012 9:47 pm    Post subject: Minimum Maile Standards         Reply with quote

Hello guys I'm new.

I wanted to know what the minimum is when it comes to maile. I want to purchase a suit for protection against blunt and sharpened weapons, but it doesn't have to be the best.

I'm very poor so this investment has to be permanent. I need to buy armour which will be good enough to last so I don't have to buy a better one later. No costume armour, just the cheapest.

Now I've noticed aluminium chain is a chrome finished metal, very shiny. The heat treatment of genuine mail turns it black, correct? Does the black colour of these real suits wear off, or does it change deep into the rings?

RIngs come in various diameters, what is the typical diameter of a European suit? Aka 1066 - 1200 time.

Rings come in rounded and flat, what's the difference structually?

What is the lowest price i have to pay and can anyone please provide me links to sellers.

Please help to find a suit I can enjoy at a low price. Cheers mate.
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Romulus Stoica




Location: Hunedoara, Transylvania, Romania
Joined: 26 Oct 2006

Posts: 124

PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul, 2012 11:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Aluminium maille will NOT protect you period. You need at least mild steel 16 or 15 gauge (swg) wire (1,6-1,8 mm), 10 mm or better 8 mm diameter rings, RIVETED or welded and a good gambeson if you are planning to use this maille armor in combat against both blunt and sharpened weapons.
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Danny S.




Location: Australia
Joined: 26 Jul 2012

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri 27 Jul, 2012 12:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Romulus Stoica wrote:
Aluminium maille will NOT protect you period. You need at least mild steel.


I had the understanding that aluminium would protect you from LIGHT blows. I'm not talking about full blown SCA rattan beating the organs out of your opponent until he barfs lunges on the duke's shoe.

I'm talking about sparring and demonstration. I do not have the money to invest $500 on a low end shirt and $200 on a coif. I also have no clue how you would stop maille from rusting without making an oil vat.

I am going to make my own gambeson by using thick quilt and making a pocket and stuffing it with even thicker material and covering it with leather.
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Tomas Bjørkhaug




Location: Oslo, Norway
Joined: 10 Jul 2011

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri 27 Jul, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Romulus Stoica wrote:
Aluminium maille will NOT protect you period. You need at least mild steel 16 or 15 gauge (swg) wire (1,6-1,8 mm), 10 mm or better 8 mm diameter rings, RIVETED or welded and a good gambeson if you are planning to use this maille armor in combat against both blunt and sharpened weapons.

Agree, using aluminium will give you a false sense of protection. I would try to invest in proper chain mail, remember it is there for your health and safety.
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Tomas Bjørkhaug




Location: Oslo, Norway
Joined: 10 Jul 2011

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri 27 Jul, 2012 12:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Danny S. wrote:
Romulus Stoica wrote:
Aluminium maille will NOT protect you period. You need at least mild steel.


I had the understanding that aluminium would protect you from LIGHT blows. I'm not talking about full blown SCA rattan beating the organs out of your opponent until he barfs lunges on the duke's shoe.

I'm talking about sparring and demonstration. I do not have the money to invest $500 on a low end shirt and $200 on a coif. I also have no clue how you would stop maille from rusting without making an oil vat.

I am going to make my own gambeson by using thick quilt and making a pocket and stuffing it with even thicker material and covering it with leather.

Then I would suggest you go without chainmail, your gambeson will protect you from the blunt blows if you fight lightly.
When fighting with sharp weapons I would make sure my gear was more than up to speed. Remember that accidents can happen, even when fighting lightly. Neither you or your friends would like you or anyone to get hurt, so giving a false sense of security might just make things worse.
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Aleksei Sosnovski





Joined: 04 Mar 2008

Posts: 313

PostPosted: Fri 27 Jul, 2012 12:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Want to be cheap? Make your own butted maille! Will protect pretty well from cuts, but fail miserably against thrust. Well, any mass-produced maille would fail against thrusts except welded steel one.
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Romulus Stoica




Location: Hunedoara, Transylvania, Romania
Joined: 26 Oct 2006

Posts: 124

PostPosted: Fri 27 Jul, 2012 4:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Want to be cheap? Make your own butted maille! Will protect pretty well from cuts, but fail miserably against thrust.


A butted maille will protect you from the first strike but a second strike in the same area will tear apart enough rings so the maille will become uneffective in that area. After 3 or 4 strikes your butted maille will be damaged enough to put you in a real danger. I have tested a butted maille shirt made from 1.8 mm mild steel 10mm diameter rings against a full force slashing strikes with an unsharpened hungarian sabre. The result was that at the first strike 2 rings were torn open and the second strike made a gap the size of my fist.
The same butted mail shirt was tested against an unsharpened "fokos" type light axe and failed miserably.
This is a "fokos" hungarian axe:
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Romulus Stoica




Location: Hunedoara, Transylvania, Romania
Joined: 26 Oct 2006

Posts: 124

PostPosted: Fri 27 Jul, 2012 5:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would say that a butted maille with 8 mm diameter rings made from 1.8 mm thick wire over a good gambeson (about 15 mm or 0.6 inch thick ) would protect you against light /controlled cutting blows from unsharpened blades or light/controlled blunt blows from mace type weapons (with no spikes). The same maille armor will not protect you enough against a medium to full force cutting blow or from a light thrusting strike. A butted ring from same thickness wire is stronger when it's dimeter is smaller so an 8mm diameter ring from 1.8 thickness wire will be stronger than a 10 mm diameter ring made from the same wire.
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
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PostPosted: Fri 27 Jul, 2012 7:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A few years ago I made a shirt from alternating rows of 4-5mm butted (1.2 mm wire) and solid washers. It could stop the hardest knife thrust I could manage against it with little visible damage afterwards. I wouldn't think it would do much against a heavy arrow or spear though.
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Quinn W.




Location: Bellingham, WA
Joined: 02 May 2009

Posts: 197

PostPosted: Fri 27 Jul, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is so much to say on this topic it's tough to give a straight answer. So much depends on exact use and intent that there is no one right answer. However, Romulus' first statement comes about as close as I think is possible to giving "the short answer for the minimum requirements of functional maille.
Romulus Stoica wrote:
Aluminium maille will NOT protect you period. You need at least mild steel 16 or 15 gauge (swg) wire (1,6-1,8 mm), 10 mm or better 8 mm diameter rings, RIVETED or welded and a good gambeson if you are planning to use this maille armor in combat against both blunt and sharpened weapons.

I have a butted mail hauberk but I only wear it for show and when doing demonstrations I always make it clear that it's not historical or truly functional.

"Some say that the age of chivalry is past, that the spirit of romance is dead. The age of chivalry is never past, so long as there is a wrong left unredressed on earth"
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Fri 27 Jul, 2012 4:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would go for at least riveted maille and galvanized mild steel won't rust although you may resemble a chain link fence because of the colour, but it's at least low maintenance compared to unprotected carbon steel and a lot less expensive than stainless steel maille. ( With time the galvanized coating will darken if exposed to the elements and look better ).

Oil blackened maille may have some degree of rust protection but I have no idea how long the finish will last as the rings rub against each other in use.

This one at Kult of Athena has alternating riveted and solid rings which would probably be your best bet as to durability and protection but it isn't zinc plated ( Galvanized ) so you would have to keep it oiled and deal with surface rust after you use it.
http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...7%27+Chest

Not sure if this is within your budget limits, but the only really cheap maille is butted and it's really poor protection that won't take many hits before falling apart from I read from some of the comments above.

I only see galvanized " Butted Gavanized " maiille on the KoA site for some reason, and no riveted galvanized at the moment ? Surprised I do have a riveted galvanized hauberk so I know they used to be made !

Maybe you could post a Topic on the Marketplace forum for a used maille shirt offering a price you can afford: Some people may have an old one they might sell if they want to upgrade to a more costly stainless or welded shirt ?

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Brian Robson





Joined: 19 Feb 2007

Posts: 185

PostPosted: Mon 30 Jul, 2012 1:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hmm, protection vs sharps.

Don't go cheap! (or even better, don't use sharps) That's pretty much all I have to say.
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Corey Skriletz




Location: United States
Joined: 27 May 2011

Posts: 118

PostPosted: Thu 02 Aug, 2012 5:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't know what your price range is, but I got a great riveted maille shirt and coif for a total of $405.00. It's a great investment, and I love it.

Here's the link to the buyer, it's on e-bay. He does custom fitting too, so you can contact him and tell him your measurements.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_from=&_nk...&rt=nc

My advice, though, is DO NOT buy butted maille. I bought a shirt and coif for around $130.00, because I was in your exact position. I didn't realize how easily the links come apart. And so I ended up having to buy another shirt and coif altogether. Trust me, a riveted set up is a good investment.

I hope this helps.
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Joshua McGee





Joined: 14 Jun 2011

Posts: 69

PostPosted: Thu 02 Aug, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Corey Skriletz wrote:
I don't know what your price range is, but I got a great riveted maille shirt and coif for a total of $405.00. It's a great investment, and I love it.

Here's the link to the buyer, it's on e-bay. He does custom fitting too, so you can contact him and tell him your measurements.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_from=&_nk...&rt=nc

My advice, though, is DO NOT buy butted maille. I bought a shirt and coif for around $130.00, because I was in your exact position. I didn't realize how easily the links come apart. And so I ended up having to buy another shirt and coif altogether. Trust me, a riveted set up is a good investment.

I hope this helps.


Do you have any pics you can post of the set showing how well it fits, etc?
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Corey Skriletz




Location: United States
Joined: 27 May 2011

Posts: 118

PostPosted: Thu 02 Aug, 2012 6:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah. You'll notice I got the sleeves a little longer, than was necessary, because i planned on cutting them down if they proved to be too long, which I did, because they were. If it looks a little big for me, that's because I wasn't wearing the gambeson in these pictures.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bullets4brains/
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Ron Reimer




Location: Australia
Joined: 16 Aug 2010

Posts: 55

PostPosted: Sat 04 Aug, 2012 3:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The butted ring mail that myself and a number of ppl in the group I'm a member of is made of SPRING steel rings.It seems to hold up very well to a lot of use including some medium hard hits from blunt (2-3mil edge) weapons.
Ron
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Danny S.




Location: Australia
Joined: 26 Jul 2012

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat 11 Aug, 2012 4:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've found some suits

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8mm-MILD-STEEL-ROUN...1c29a86f2a

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8mm-MEDIEVAL-FLAT-R...1c29252b95

Mods, pretty please don't take these links down (I see other threads and nobody touches them). I really need specifics.

What do you people think about these ones? They are meant to be zinc plated, one is 17G and the next is 18G, both 8mm and heavy (that's really good).
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sat 11 Aug, 2012 6:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Danny S. wrote:
I've found some suits

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8mm-MILD-STEEL-ROUN...1c29a86f2a

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8mm-MEDIEVAL-FLAT-R...1c29252b95

Mods, pretty please don't take these links down (I see other threads and nobody touches them). I really need specifics.

What do you people think about these ones? They are meant to be zinc plated, one is 17G and the next is 18G, both 8mm and heavy (that's really good).


Discussing ongoing Ebay auctions can have legal consequences for the site and may violate Ebay's terms of service. Please don't do it.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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