Damascus Long Sword for praticing Liechtenauer -- myArmoury.com

Tyler Brinckerhoff

I am currently starting my research into where and if it would work to use a damascus steel blade, for a long sword to use in Liechtenauer training classes.Would the damascus work any better than period steel?
I was wondering if this blade would work?(all i could find were viking longsword blades)
http://www.ancientarms.biz/servlet/Detail?no=1186
or this one since it has a longer tang:
http://www.ancientarms.biz/servlet/Detail?no=1725
Thank you for your time and expertise.

These have been the best damascus steel blades that would be long enough that i have found so far.

Ken Nelson · Posted: Wed 02 May, 2012 7:58 pm Post subject:

Would the damascus work any better than period steel?

The short answer is NO, the longer answer is it depends. If you are looking at swords that were made using materials and methods from the period, then you are probably looking at either a simple carbon steel, or a shear steel. The processes for making steel for a sword were the best attempts available at the time to get a uniform steel with proper hardening qualities, and then some of the blades could vary wildly in hardness from one point to another as little as 3 " away.

Modern steels can far exceed the capabilities of period steels, and I include all pattern welded and wootz steels in this. our multi ton pours can produce steels that are more homogeneous, less likely to have inclusions and impurities, and alloys can be added to improve toughness, impact resistance, strength, and/or hardenability.

When you take modern steels and then pattern weld them together, you now have the possibility of reintroducing flaws, impurities, and also losing some of the carbon that you wanted in the blade to begin with. Damascus steel is not magical, nor is it better than the steels that it was made from.

I would suggest, if you are looking to hilt the sword yourself, to talk to an experienced maker, or a HEMA group in your area. they can probably point you in the direction of blades that were used at the time, that would make good practice weapons. While I do not know how thick, or balanced the blades you posted are, as I have not held them, I am not inclined to suggest them. the profiles look like they are poorly designed, and do not reflect a period blade.

Scott Hanson · Posted: Wed 02 May, 2012 8:05 pm Post subject:

I would have to second that, don't use either of those. If you want to hilt your own sword, pick up an Albion moat blade or another reputable makers product. If you really want a pattern welded (Damascus) blade, then you'll probably have to go custom to get a good one that would be appropriately balanced for 14th/15th century longsword fighting.

Bill Grandy · myArmoury Team

R. Kolick · Posted: Wed 02 May, 2012 8:26 pm Post subject:

as to the shape of the sword id agree they are not accurate to the period and seem low quality so I cannot advise you to buy them as to damascus/pattern welding/folded steel vs. modern steel. This argument has been going on for as long as we've had swords made of mono-steel blades. these blades where designed to make steel of a much higher quality from raw iron (please don’t turn this into an argument over the qualities of damascus/pattern welding/folded steel vs. modern steel save that for another thread) so it will really come down to your preference of how you want your blade to look and if you want something different but if you do decide that you don’t want a mono-steel blade buy a custom blade because you will help keep a dying art alive and will get a blade of a far superior quality and a piece of art as well
p.s. the blades dont seem to even fit the same time period that your looking for and for a sparring sword i would say buy a monosteel blade from a reputalble dealer like A&A because do you realy want to spend so much more on a sword and piece of art you will eventualy break or severly damage in the procese of sparring with it but again it your choice

Tyler Brinckerhoff · Posted: Wed 02 May, 2012 8:34 pm Post subject:

Thank you all for the quick replies i shall not be aquiring these blades and shall going to go to albion swords.

T. Arndt · Posted: Wed 02 May, 2012 9:12 pm Post subject:

Craig McMillan · Posted: Wed 02 May, 2012 11:58 pm Post subject:

This is my pattern sword i made to c how a non viking sword would look like http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=247206#247206

Scott Hanson · Posted: Thu 03 May, 2012 7:06 am Post subject:

Hey T. Arndt, back off! The man wants Albion.

(this is a joke, Arndt is my sparring buddy, and I prefer Albion, he prefers A&A. Both are good choices)

Daniel Wallace · Posted: Thu 03 May, 2012 9:34 am Post subject:

pattern welding is more of an art form - depending on what you want - your going to pay for it weather it's damascus or actually pattern welding. both are a craft, and it takes a craftsman to make them properly.

both were developed because for the time, people couldn't make a bar of good steel at length, so you'd take the iron/steel - and attempt to spread out the impurities through out the steel by these processes.

today we've got so many alloys that it's only necessary if you'd want a patterned blade. even though some smiths are combining several different alloys like high carbon layed with L6 backed with nickel - sometimes going crazy with S7 alloys, their durability in comparison to something homogenous - well as said there's an argument there i don't have enough forge knowledge to debate that.

has anyone every seen some of the new methods, mosaic damascus? it's a method of images forged into steel.

Craig McMillan · Posted: Thu 03 May, 2012 11:24 pm Post subject:

Just like to say i am still lurning the craft of pattern welding and still need to do more testing of what i am making but if u do a good forge weld with all high carbon steel it realy comes down to how good u can do the heat treat to how good the blade is but yes mono steel will be better and in forging there are thinks that can happen like over heating and not enuff heat this can make a blade weeker aswell i do it becouse i am makeing a pattern in the steel and there are some amazing patterns out there that i hope that i can make swords with them the pattern is just for looks and i enjoy making them.

mosaic steel is is not so much layers of steel but lots of small boxs with a pattern in each of them all forged welded togather sort of.