Standards, ie neck armor -- myArmoury.com

Scott Woodruff · Posted: Mon 02 Apr, 2012 10:08 pm Post subject: Standards, ie neck armor

I am having difficulty researching the piece of neck armor known as a standard. Googling "mail standard" "standard armor" etc has been completely hopeless. Can anyone help me, please? In particular, I would like to know how the armor was constructed, when it was introduced and how long it continued in use. I am under the impression that the standard is a sort of padded collar, sometimes reinforced with mail or lames and sometimes with a bishops-mantle-like extension over the shoulders. Is this at all correct? Any info or points in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Stephen Curtin · Posted: Tue 03 Apr, 2012 2:58 am Post subject:

hi Scott, yes I can see the difficulty in googling mail standard. AFAIK a standard and a bishops mantle were the same thing, you might also try searching with the word pisane which is also another world meaning the same thing.

Mark T · Posted: Tue 03 Apr, 2012 3:23 am Post subject:

Try this!

Scott Woodruff · Posted: Tue 03 Apr, 2012 8:18 am Post subject:

Thank you both for your quick replies. Mark, as you can see, I am not very computer savvy, but thanks to forumnites like you I am learning a little bit all the time. Stephen, thank you for the synonym, I will see if that helps with my research. I still have a lot of research to do to fully answer my questions, but now at least I am off to a good start.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 03 Apr, 2012 10:20 am Post subject:

the bishop's mantle is a much larger thing, covering to the shoulders.
There's some standard info. here: http://www.historiclife.com/Armory.htm

Jojo Zerach · Posted: Tue 03 Apr, 2012 10:44 am Post subject:

They seem to first appear during the 14th century, and are worn under aventails on bascinets, or with great helms.
Some seem to have a leather lining folded over the top, while others seem to take to form of late 15th century designs.

http://effigiesandbrasses.com/monuments/charl...815/large/

http://effigiesandbrasses.com/monuments/roger...170/large/

Scott Woodruff · Posted: Wed 04 Apr, 2012 9:06 am Post subject:

Sean, thank you for the link, that is exactly what I needed. I want to make some authentic solid/riveted mail, but I want to start with something relatively small, so I figured a standard would be perfect. Now I have some very detailed instructions!
I thought that there was some distinction between a standard and a bishop's mantle, I just wasn't sure what it was. I have been under the impression that "standard" was a period term but "bishop's mantle" was not. Is that correct?

Thank you Jojo for the links to the effigies. Too bad the standard only started being used in the 14th c, I was hoping for a piece of kit that would fit in with both a 15th c and a 12th-13th c kit. Oh well, ces't la vie.

Len Parker · Posted: Wed 04 Apr, 2012 9:58 am Post subject:

http://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=26698

Mark T · Posted: Wed 04 Apr, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject:

Len: Woah! That is a fantastic thread! Thanks so much.

Scott: I think David Teague had a thread over at The Armour Archive that showed how he contstructed his standard; I've just had a quick look but couldn't find it ... see how you go!

Mark

PS Wasn't meaning to be a smart-alec with the 'Let Me Google That For You' link - I just find Google's domain-specific search can give you not only targeted results, but also allows the use of inverted commas to get compound / combined word sets.

Len Parker · Posted: Wed 04 Apr, 2012 5:55 pm Post subject:

This looks like a good standard to study (at bottom). http://www.britishplate.org.uk/under_the_armour.htm You can see where the expansion rings are put in a few rows up between the points. Wish they had a picture of it being worn, but it looks like it would fit right.

Len Parker · Posted: Wed 04 Apr, 2012 6:05 pm Post subject:

Jojo, nice find on the second image. That's the earliest standard I've seen. The first one might be attached to the shirt?

Jojo Zerach · Posted: Wed 04 Apr, 2012 9:19 pm Post subject:

Mark T · Posted: Wed 04 Apr, 2012 10:20 pm Post subject:

Here's a thread that shows pics of one of the standards that David Teague assembled: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...t=standard

Johan K · Posted: Thu 05 Apr, 2012 1:06 am Post subject:

Everything posted here so far only seems to be padded at the collar. I was wondering what your thoughts are on a piece that is fully lined, such as this one:

http://www.diu-minnezit.de/realie_vollansicht...ellermarke

Jens Boerner · Posted: Thu 05 Apr, 2012 2:12 am Post subject:

I have built this maille collar. The lining of the lower part is pure speculative (the text mentions that). I was simply fed up with my doublet becoming stained. The upper part bases on an original.

James Barker · Posted: Thu 05 Apr, 2012 5:32 am Post subject:

Scott Woodruff · Posted: Thu 05 Apr, 2012 5:32 pm Post subject:

Mark, no prob, I didn't take it as anything but helpful.
James, I am not entirely sure what you mean in your last post. Do you simply mean that if you were to do it again, you would do one with dags? Or do you mean that the body should be made up of triangular pieces fitted together?

Len Parker · Posted: Thu 05 Apr, 2012 6:00 pm Post subject:

Here's one made with squares and triangles http://www.tula-svarga.ru/catalog/artefacts/e...a/245.html

Len Parker · Posted: Thu 05 Apr, 2012 6:20 pm Post subject:

That 6 in 1 collar would be more like the one here http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewto...;p=2109048

James Barker · Posted: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 4:14 am Post subject: