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William P
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 Posted: Fri 13 Jul, 2012 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| Lafayette C Curtis wrote: | Like it or not, though, I still haven't found any support for the idea that the Macedonian troops at Pydna sported such an ad hoc grandguard/bevor setup, even after looking through more sources (including a few of the loonier secondhand interpretations).
On the other hand, permanent shoulder shields (not improvised contraptions meant to be dropped before the battle was joined) was mentioned as part of a pikeman's equipment in one of the Burgundian ordinances of the 1470s. I don't think there's much in the way of clear evidence of what these shields looked like (I've seen interpretations that made them look like jousting ecranches, including in the Feature article on Burgundian armies) or whether they ever saw any actual use (since the illustrations to the near-contemporary Swiss chronicles don't really seem to depict them much, if at all). |
i meant i like the idea i.e its a cool idea, im not saying that it was neccesarily used. more saying it like a 'fantasy concept
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Kurt Scholz
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| Posted: Mon 16 Jul, 2012 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| William P wrote: | | Lafayette C Curtis wrote: | Like it or not, though, I still haven't found any support for the idea that the Macedonian troops at Pydna sported such an ad hoc grandguard/bevor setup, even after looking through more sources (including a few of the loonier secondhand interpretations).
On the other hand, permanent shoulder shields (not improvised contraptions meant to be dropped before the battle was joined) was mentioned as part of a pikeman's equipment in one of the Burgundian ordinances of the 1470s. I don't think there's much in the way of clear evidence of what these shields looked like (I've seen interpretations that made them look like jousting ecranches, including in the Feature article on Burgundian armies) or whether they ever saw any actual use (since the illustrations to the near-contemporary Swiss chronicles don't really seem to depict them much, if at all). |
i meant i like the idea i.e its a cool idea, im not saying that it was neccesarily used. more saying it like a 'fantasy concept |
I have to retract that statement, I'm still going through my sources and will post it when I found the section. Perhaps I got the wrong Macedonian battle.
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Lafayette C Curtis
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| Posted: Thu 26 Jul, 2012 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| Daniel Staberg wrote: | | Lafayette C Curtis wrote: | | On the other hand, permanent shoulder shields (not improvised contraptions meant to be dropped before the battle was joined) was mentioned as part of a pikeman's equipment in one of the Burgundian ordinances of the 1470s. I don't think there's much in the way of clear evidence of what these shields looked like (I've seen interpretations that made them look like jousting ecranches, including in the Feature article on Burgundian armies) or whether they ever saw any actual use (since the illustrations to the near-contemporary Swiss chronicles don't really seem to depict them much, if at all). |
Those were not shoulder shields at all but rather classic bucklers whose nature has been misunderstood due to poor translations of the original French. IIRC there is a short discussion on that subject elsewhere in the forum. |
Really? I haven't heard that--must have missed the discussion. It makes sense, though, since we do know of pikemen carrying sword-and-buckler sets as backup weapons.
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Kurt Scholz
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| Posted: Fri 07 Sep, 2012 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.lib.ed.ac.uk/about/bgallery/Galler...61_jpg.htm
I found this image linked above elsewhere in myArmoury. It shows one example how you can have both hads free with a shield that still covers most of the torso, except for the shoulders. The shield must not be a targe, you could use for example a roundshield.
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William P
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| Posted: Mon 10 Sep, 2012 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Kurt Scholz wrote: | http://www.lib.ed.ac.uk/about/bgallery/Gallery/researchcoll/pages/bg0061_jpg.htm
I found this image linked above elsewhere in myArmoury. It shows one example how you can have both hads free with a shield that still covers most of the torso, except for the shoulders. The shield must not be a targe, you could use for example a roundshield. |
that method shown in that woodcut, of shield use seems fairly consistant with the method employed by the NVG to simultaneously wield the byzantine pike AND also hold a shield aka hanging in front of you via neckstrap mostly.
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Lafayette C Curtis
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| Posted: Fri 14 Sep, 2012 3:35 am Post subject: |
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Are those really shields at all, however? They appear fixed to the wearer's chest, with no form of attachment to the arms--indeed, the reins are held to the left of the large round object, not to the right like what I'd expect if the horsemen were actually carrying shields.
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