Albion Knight photo request -- myArmoury.com

Phil D. · Posted: Mon 12 Mar, 2012 9:17 pm Post subject:

I am not arguing,to each his own.We all have a different tolerance but to me it's not about length or POB...this is just an example, but if I purchased and XIV and it had a spatulated X tip ,I would not be happy.I wouldn't care that it may fall under historical variances if it wasn't what I paid for.And here there is no "custom,hand forged" justification.After all it is still a "production" sword.

Josh S · Posted: Tue 13 Mar, 2012 12:59 am Post subject:

I agree with Phil. I personally would not have found the "variance" shown in Paul B.G's original post acceptable. It changes the sword's overall appearance in a fairly major way. Additionally, a full centimeter seems a little much to chalk up to chance - that's no small amount of blade to grind away. One of the reasons Albions are so prized is because of their subtleties, and their attention to detail. The downside to this is that when those details and subtleties change, even if minutely, it has a larger effect on the overall piece relative to the same minute changes on a piece that does not focus so heavily on bringing subtleties into a higher degree of appreciation.

Considering Albion's response to be "disappointing" may be jumping the gun a bit, though. One should keep the context in mind; Paul B.G has already stated that he is satisfied with the sword as-is. Whereas I personally wouldn't be, that doesn't have any bearing on the nature of their response. In the context of being a satisfied customer, hearing that the variation was within specifications would be more reassuring than disappointing for me Happy

Paul B.G · Posted: Tue 13 Mar, 2012 1:46 am Post subject:

Luka Borscak · Posted: Tue 13 Mar, 2012 4:18 am Post subject:

Sorry to hear this. But even with these variations from Albion's specs, you still have a great, high quality historical sword.

Jeremy V. Krause · Posted: Tue 13 Mar, 2012 8:38 am Post subject:

I'd be totally fine with it, especially in a NG sword- as exact replication of one sword is not the selling point- per se. I would even say that exact duplication between individual NG swords is not a selling point. It isn't especially important to me whether my NG's show SLIGHT variance from model to model.

I must admit if this were a ML sword in question I would likely look at the issue differently.

I would certainly hope and expect that a much tighter spec. variance is acceptable regarding ML swords as I expect my Solingen, as an example, to be fairly precise in comparision, first to other Solingens, and then of course to the original.

I wonder how other's ML swords specs. compare to those shown on Albion's website. Perhaps this is a worthy question.

On the other hand, I never measure or weigh my swords so I would be oblivious anyway to any slight variance. Happy

Jean Thibodeau · Posted: Wed 14 Mar, 2012 1:56 am Post subject:

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Wed 14 Mar, 2012 1:51 pm Post subject:

In the time you've wasted creating and participating in this thread you could have boxed the sword up and had it back in route to Albion to be replaced. I don't mean that statement to be inflammatory or insulting so please don't take it that way. However, you do realize these are objects made with a good degree of handwork involved? These are not objects spit out by a machine as most other things in our society are. I've been dealing with swords and sword makers longer than most here and that variance falls within my personal realm of acceptability. The profile of the tip does change the look of the blade in a small way but it doesn't compromise the function or overall aesthetic of the piece. 1cm? Come on guys. If your expectations are that rigid you really need to find a new hobby that totally eliminates the human factor in the manufacturing process. IMHO your dissatisfaction and expectations are unreasonable.

Paul B.G · Posted: Wed 14 Mar, 2012 2:52 pm Post subject:

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

Paul, your snide and sarcastic response is unwelcome. Further, it's not up to you to tell others what their intentions are. You'll refrain from doing this again. You're welcome to, and in fact, encouraged to respond to such posts and to even express your frustration or annoyance with them, but do so professionally and without the sarcasm in the future. Further comments or questions regarding this can be directed to me in private.

Phil D. · Posted: Wed 14 Mar, 2012 3:46 pm Post subject:

I for one sympathize with Paul's frustration.Albion does great work.And I would hope that they stand by it.Here is a quote from Albion's main page:

these limited edition collectable swords are all painstakingly handmade to "exacting design specifications", based on countless hours spent in the detailed study and documentation of original swords.

Translate it as you will.

I am an artist by trade.I work with my hands all day.I've had bad days and not produced the standards to which I am capable.When I do,I do not hold my client responsible for my work.I fix it or redo it and give him/her what they expected at no extra expense to them.I am sorry if someone had a bad day at the grinder but the customer shouldn't have to suffer for that if they are displeased with the outcome..Just because an item falls within historical variance means nothing ,it is still different than the expectations that were purchased based on the pictures and info shown.If it is going to be touted as a near custom or "recreation of an actual piece" then it should be treated as such.

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

Paul B.G · Posted: Wed 14 Mar, 2012 5:29 pm Post subject:

I have edited my prior post, I apologise if I have offended.

Paul B.G · Posted: Wed 14 Mar, 2012 6:24 pm Post subject:

Paul Watson · Posted: Wed 14 Mar, 2012 6:53 pm Post subject:

After my post I could not find anything on the site as has been stated by others. I now think the memory of such statements was taken from collector feedback which is an entirely different source than the manufacturer so apologies for that. I thibk regardless of all other factors the fact that Paul BG did not receive the sword he was expecting based on avaulable manufacturers information is the main relevant point. Many here accept these variances but each to their own and I queried my first sword that I had concerns about which was the Regent. I did not think the blade was sharp, I could comfortably run my finger down the blade whereas in my reading some had said such a sword would be razor sharp or at leasr very sharp. After enquiring with people here I found out that the sword was blunter than what some had received and the same as what others had received. I was dissapointed at first but came to realise this may well be within historical paramwters. The sword was also 4oz lighter than published. I think if it had been 4oz heavier I would have been very concerned. Similar to having a 80 cm blade thst is only 79cm. I also sympathise with the shipping costs issue, being from approximately the same area of the world. I have come across an Aussie based company selling Albion online, I will try to yrack them down for you. maybe a better option than buying from overseas.

Paul B.G · Posted: Wed 14 Mar, 2012 7:05 pm Post subject:

Phil D. · Posted: Wed 14 Mar, 2012 7:10 pm Post subject:

As a reputable seller I would hope that Albion and Paul are able to address and resolve this issue.It would alleviate any future buyer concerns.

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Wed 14 Mar, 2012 11:24 pm Post subject:

Paul,

In the future please show me the courtesy of taking my comments at face value and please do not dictate my intentions, I believe I know them better than you. This medium provides very limited communication and if one reads too much between the lines things can quickly go astray. Your response to my initial post serves as an excellent example of that.

To be frank, not snide but simply frank and blunt as is my preference, the reply you received from Albion is the same reply you'd get from any other maker in this industry. Having dealt with both custom and production sword makers for over three decades I can tell you there is a natural variance in the process. To expect an exact adherence to specifications right down to the micrometer is simply not the reality in this field. I've seen variances far greater than that which you've experienced and that in work by highly regarded custom makers, not just production houses. That variance is simply part of the natural process by which these items are manufactured, that's the reality. These are swords which adhere to the ancient handworking processes to one degree or another, these aren't I-Phones or Crocks. Wink

Your confusion is far from unique. As with many new people in the hobby you come from a very precise and mass produced world in which one item is identical to another of the same type. In our world where fewer and fewer things are made by hand this is expected. I'm not trying to make an excuse for shoddy work, but I don't consider the variance in your sword to be an example of such. Originals of your swords type will show far greater variances, fullers will waver all over the place, guards will be noticeably offset, hammer marks will be evident, etc., etc. Yet these swords were considered perfectly acceptable and even fine examples of their type in that far more naturalistic world.

I don't recall seeing any kind of guarantee of exact adherence to specifications on Albions site, or even a statement of proportional acceptance. Then again, I don't recall seeing it on any other companies website either. In my opinion, and it's only my opinion, such a demand is just a bit excessive.

Paul B.G · Posted: Thu 15 Mar, 2012 1:28 am Post subject:

Patrick,

Whilst it may not have been your intention, your blunt, as you put it, condescending as I read it, original reply to this thread was just that, condescending. If you don’t want the intention of your comments taken other than intended, I would suggest that in future that you reply in others threads with the same respect and courtesy as they do so to you. And to be frank, the intention of your original reply did not come across to me as you offering advice but you mocking me for even daring to question the finish of the Albion Knight. And as limited as this medium is for communication, other seem to be able to offer advice and comments without the condescending manner, my reply was in response to this tone.

The reply from Albion to my question is another issue all together, aside from the finish variation. This is to do with customer relations and seemingly my expectations are higher than others. Whether the finish of the Knight was spot on or a bit off or another industry all together, I still expect a high level of customer service. Aside from the finish of any sword, we should all hold a high expectation of customer service.

Clearly your original reply to this thread has put me offside, and my reply in turn has put you offside, but again my intention in starting this thread was to gain a better understanding and in the end you have offered your experience which I am grateful for.

Regards

Paul

Josh S · Posted: Thu 15 Mar, 2012 1:36 am Post subject:

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

It almost looks like there's a couple people here looking to lose their posting privileges. My comment, "Further comments or questions regarding this can be directed to me in private" said above is clear. Any further attempts to guide the behaviors and methods of communication of others will result in loss of privileges. This is not the job of the members of this site to do. This is very clear in our rules of conduct: