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Matthew Kelty
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Posted: Tue 03 Jan, 2012 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Paul Hansen wrote: | A person might call himself Christian, but still hold a lot of beliefs, superstitions and traditions of Pagan origin......and close enough to the original Gospel to be supported by the Church. |
Nailed it. Western Christianity (and the English Language for that matter) is chock full of Pagan rites, rituals, epics and folklore having their serial numbers ground off and rebranded. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Maltese cross were originally atrributed to the four winds, or some other pre-christian mythos.
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E. Storesund
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Posted: Tue 03 Jan, 2012 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Matthew Kelty wrote: | Paul Hansen wrote: | A person might call himself Christian, but still hold a lot of beliefs, superstitions and traditions of Pagan origin......and close enough to the original Gospel to be supported by the Church. |
Nailed it. Western Christianity (and the English Language for that matter) is chock full of Pagan rites, rituals, epics and folklore having their serial numbers ground off and rebranded. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Maltese cross were originally atrributed to the four winds, or some other pre-christian mythos. |
Absolutely. While there is rather little outspoken evidence of crosses being particularly symbol-heavy in pre-christian germanic religion, there should be no dispute that they could have served ornamental purposes. When I read Norwegian books on the late Iron Age it sometimes seems as if two lines can't overlap without somebody eagerly pointing it out as some early christian influence.
On the other hand I find the pommel rather conspicuous, and if I were to make a bet I'd definately suggest it to be Christian.
Then again, this need not at all be at odds with the ring on the sword, and functions origionally connected with pagan practices, anything from judicial processes and politics and society need not change much even though the pantheon does so.
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Luka Borscak
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Posted: Tue 03 Jan, 2012 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Is that cross inlayed or how is it made? If inlayed, what metal is it?
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Daniel Wallace
Location: Pennsylvania USA Joined: 07 Aug 2011
Posts: 580
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Posted: Tue 03 Jan, 2012 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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i've been loosely looking through this post - so i might hit on something that was already mentioned. but i'll through my thoughts into the mix too.
the christian cross may not have been displayed on swords for a variety of reasons, one i could state is a modern day notion that could touch the the subject. to put on cross on something other than what is holy is 'taboo' (by the roman church). it's as if you put a cross on something and your attempting to make it a holy object and unfortunately only the church can deem what is a holy object. i had a pastor once explain this to me and i know that it sound a little negative and it's hard for me to explain i just remember him expressing that objects other than holy object should not be adorned with the cross - this also led into another discussion of personal wearing of the cross that i'm not going to get into unless asked. it's possibly relevant but may cause some arguments.
if we're going to be looking for a cross, historically it wasn't popular until the first crusade (at least from what my crusade research is pointing at). before then the fish symbol or PX the lamb there are many more christian symbols that labeled a person as 'christian.' Pope Urban used the cross (what we would see as the equal pointed knight's cross) as a symbol and propaganda to unite the crusaders and mark that they were part of the pilgrimage. the first crusade was made up of so may different ethnic groups - and the cross was the only symbol used to unite these people. they couldn't use language some of these people can't even be understood - they spoke a dying dialect at times. for another prince to have his standard followed during the crusade would have lead to more infighting within the groups "we're fighting for Bohemond" instead of "we're fighting for God under Bohemond."
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Matthew Kelty
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Posted: Tue 03 Jan, 2012 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Daniel Wallace wrote: | i just remember him expressing that objects other than holy object should not be adorned with the cross |
It may very well be that the Cross emblazoned swords belonged to the actual knights, and that the rank and file were not part of that very important papal blessing. This would certainly mesh with the ratio of crosses you are finding (or not).
I don't have it at my fingertips, but I did at some point have either the Templar or Maltese sword blessing prayer, and it was a fairly impressive bit of liturgy. We had incorporated it into a Knighting ceremony, and a Lay Minister did it by the book, holy water and all. It may very well be that the crosses were reserved for that level of official sanction (i.e. taking on an official role in the Church's battle).
Makes me smile to think of my blessed Atar, might be time to etch a cross on it.
P.S. For the record, the sword of the officiant as well as all of the recipients are blessed in the prayer.
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