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Sam Gordon Campbell
Location: Australia. Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 678
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 Posted: Wed 16 Nov, 2011 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Now that design seems to work pretty well. With a bit more tweaking it's going to look sweet.
If only more producers added coifs like this (amongst the other styles) to their stock.
Hm. I do love the look of the circular style, but in the mean time I've gotta get a kit together by next years Abbey Medieval Festival, so it's looking more like I'm going to have to go with the less common, but more readily available horizontal style.
FYI, the first picture in this little document gives a good example of a "circular" style coif: http://www.manningimperial.com/articles/Europ...uction.pdf
Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
Founder of The Van Dieman's Land Stage Gladiators.
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Randall Moffett
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| Posted: Thu 17 Nov, 2011 6:28 am Post subject: |
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Brian,
Looks good. Do you have padding inside the secret?
Sam,
Why do you think the 'circular' was more common? Just looked at twenty three effigies from this period and all were horizontal. As well even in artwork of the period Such as St. Olaf's Chronicle there are more horizontal ones over the other configuration. I'll concede the possibility of it in use but where is the evidence it is more common?
And again that 0 existent mail has been found in this manner is not very supportive either.
Not trying to rain on your parade just figure why/how you came to that conclusion.
RPM
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Brian Robson
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| Posted: Thu 17 Nov, 2011 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| Randall Moffett wrote: | Brian,
Looks good. Do you have padding inside the secret?
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Yep, just a plain padded arming cap (same shape as the civilian linen coifs). The secret also has a leather spider. Nothing around the neck right now though. I think i'll make myself a small, fairly thin padded collar - just enough to stop mail-skin contact without adding any bulk.
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Randall Moffett
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| Posted: Thu 17 Nov, 2011 9:14 am Post subject: |
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There are a few images showing something that could be an independent collar, such as those in the Mac Bible but they could be the collar of an aketon as well I suppose. Keeping mail from rubbing on bare skin is a good idea. After running around with just mail over a few places for a day I had some nasty abrasions and bruises from mail pinches as well as a few worse bruises and cuts where I took some hits. I think your idea a very good one if you ever use it for reenactment battle.
They made interesting stories at work and school though.
RPM
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Elling Polden
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| Posted: Thu 17 Nov, 2011 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Some places in mac and Edward the confessor people appear to wear loose padded colars. In Eddy C these are also worn on top of the coif:
Of course, this migh be in addition to a thin inner collar. It apears the norm was to wear a reasonably thin arming tunic under the mail, and add further paddin on the outside, as seen on some infantrymen in mac, and described in written sources.
This makes sense, since it restricts movement less than stuffing your hauberk/coif full of padding...
Personally I have a very tall, about 1cm thick collar that goes all the way up to the base of the chin. This is to compensate for my comparatively short greathelm when sparring; the depicted originals for wear under padding seem to be a simple 5cm standing colars attatched to the arming tunic.
"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Sam Gordon Campbell
Location: Australia. Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 678
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| Posted: Fri 18 Nov, 2011 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| Randall Moffett wrote: | Brian,
Looks good. Do you have padding inside the secret?
Sam,
Why do you think the 'circular' was more common? Just looked at twenty three effigies from this period and all were horizontal. As well even in artwork of the period Such as St. Olaf's Chronicle there are more horizontal ones over the other configuration. I'll concede the possibility of it in use but where is the evidence it is more common?
And again that 0 existent mail has been found in this manner is not very supportive either.
Not trying to rain on your parade just figure why/how you came to that conclusion.
RPM |
With regards to a "Secret", when I get mine I intend to wear a sturdy arming cap, and put a suspension liner in the secret. That way I figure I can wear it over or under.
And Randall, perhaps you are right. Methinks it may be my error in that I actively seek out that particular style, so I tend to over look others. Academic folly on my part trying to get evidence to match my prefered conclusion. Whoops 
With regards to an aketon under the hauberk, I'm a soft guy so I think I'll try to construct a aketon that's both thin and semirigid.
And since I've already built the collar, I may go back to the drawing board as I've made it too high too. It's rigid just by stitching it, however perhaps softer and with boiled leather plates might be the go. Hm.
IMHO Matthew Paris is better then the Mackjoski 
Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
Founder of The Van Dieman's Land Stage Gladiators.
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Brian Robson
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Sam Gordon Campbell
Location: Australia. Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 678
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| Posted: Wed 23 Nov, 2011 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Brian,
That is pretty awesome.
And more importantly it looks the part, and from what you've said it seems to function the well as well.
 Attachment: 55.42 KB
Better late then never.
Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
Founder of The Van Dieman's Land Stage Gladiators.
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Randall Moffett
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| Posted: Thu 24 Nov, 2011 6:26 am Post subject: |
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Brian,
Very nice work. It looks very much like what you are trying to do.
Looks like you site is coming along very well. I have aspirations of doing something like it for the 1340s. Only a few weeks till Christmas break so may be I can work on it then.
Looking forward to your photos on the clothing and martial examples.
If I had to jump to another time frame mid 13th would be one high on the list for me so look forward to seeing things develop.
RPM
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Brian Robson
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| Posted: Thu 24 Nov, 2011 6:57 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, Randall.
I think if I could choose another period, it would probably be 1340! (If not for it being a lot more expensive than 1250!)
Sam,
Looking at the direction of the rows of mail on the figures on the image you posted.. Do you think they may have had the usual circular piece of mail you usually see on the top of the head at the back of it instead to give that kind of style?
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Elling Polden
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| Posted: Thu 24 Nov, 2011 7:16 am Post subject: |
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When it comes to the lines of styliced mail, my expreience when drawing is that it is often a convenient way to give depth and shape to the figure. So there is always a posibility that such variations in direction is artistic.
You cof is looking real nice! A good riveded mail coif is one of the last things I am missing from my 1260s kit, so this is quite interesting.
"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Sam Gordon Campbell
Location: Australia. Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 678
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| Posted: Fri 02 Dec, 2011 5:15 am Post subject: |
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Here is an excellent example of a coif with no ventail (the "circular" style) and how it may open. PLUS! It appears to be a separate coif.
Oh, and in this thread, I posted a crude sketch of how (at the time {in retrospect they're too complicated}) I thought they may function. I have since changed my tune.
Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
Founder of The Van Dieman's Land Stage Gladiators.
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