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Tim Odell
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 Posted: Thu 25 Aug, 2011 9:03 am Post subject: Historical evidence of how late 14th c. legs were pointed... |
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I'm sure this has been discussed many times, but I am looking for any historical evidence of how late 14th century plate legs were pointed and/or supported. I've seen speculations of arming points on the gambeson, vest-like pourpoints, and on chausses. Has anyone found any first generation illustrations, paintings, effigies, or extant armour that show's what's really going on?
This seems to be one of the most debated topics on armour.
Thankya,
T
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Christian Henry Tobler
Location: Oxford, CT Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 704
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Len Parker
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| Posted: Thu 25 Aug, 2011 10:30 am Post subject: |
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If you scroll down http://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=29477 there's an inside pic of the Charles de Blois pourpoint. You can see seven laces at the bottom, but on the images below it looks like only two laces are being used to hold up the hose at the sides. I would think the front and back laces would be for the leg armour.
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Tim Odell
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| Posted: Thu 25 Aug, 2011 10:32 am Post subject: |
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It's a frustrating problem...
TOMAR has what I think is a second generation sketch of some period artwork that shows something that looks like two arming points for each leg on the outside of a pourpoint or gambeson, but I don't remember what he lists as a source.
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Tim Odell
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| Posted: Thu 25 Aug, 2011 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| Len Parker wrote: | | If you scroll down http://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=29477 there's an inside pic of the Charles de Blois pourpoint. You can see seven laces at the bottom, but on the images below it looks like only two laces are being used to hold up the hose at the sides. I would think the front and back laces would be for the leg armour. |
Nice! I haven't seen this photo before. It seems unlikely to me that points in the back would work for pointing the cuisse.
Hmmmm.....
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Sean Manning
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| Posted: Fri 26 Aug, 2011 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Len Parker wrote: | | If you scroll down http://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=29477 there's an inside pic of the Charles de Blois pourpoint. You can see seven laces at the bottom, but on the images below it looks like only two laces are being used to hold up the hose at the sides. I would think the front and back laces would be for the leg armour. |
The evidence seems to be slightly against the doublet of Charles de Bois being an arming garment though (its not cut to fit over armour, it doesn't have wear or rust stains, the outer layer is very ornate, and the large buttons would catch in the hauberk). The sword and buckler fencer in the linked picture has loosened his hose for more mobility ... I think you can wear a given set of hose with different lacing configurations depending on how you want to move.
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This is a standard topic