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P. Cha
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 Posted: Tue 07 Jun, 2011 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| Michael Edelson wrote: |
| Luka Borscak wrote: | | Hanwei Bastard is not really an optimal sword for longsword fencing... If you want a cheap sword, Hanwei Tinker Longsword would be the most acceptable choice. I have one it's relatively good cutter for the type and handles well. But I really dislike the hex nuts... |
For tatami the Hanwei TInker longsword is terrible. Even with a shaving sharp 40 degree appleseed edge. |
40?!? That's too steep...I would try for a less agreesive edge and see. That should make the longsword cut better.
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P. Cha
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| Posted: Tue 07 Jun, 2011 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| Robert Hinds wrote: | Thanks for all your help guys.  Here is my current plan...
While the crecy is a bit expensive for me right now I will save up for it in the future. But for right now I'm planning on getting the German Bastard Sword mentioned earlier in the thread to hold me over because I can have it by the end of the month and get cutting right away.
Thanks for all your help. |
The windlass german bastard sword actually weights more then the hanwei bastard sword...at a much smaller sword :P . Honestly for a sword to tie you over, I would go with the VA practicle longsword or the H/T longsword. Those have the general mass and balance of the sword you are use to for HEMA...are of decent quality and inexpensive. If your interested in that style of sword, waiting for the hanwei rhinelander to come out and see what people say may also be a good idea.
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Robert Hinds
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| Posted: Tue 07 Jun, 2011 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| P. Cha wrote: | | Robert Hinds wrote: | Thanks for all your help guys. Here is my current plan...
While the crecy is a bit expensive for me right now I will save up for it in the future. But for right now I'm planning on getting the German Bastard Sword mentioned earlier in the thread to hold me over because I can have it by the end of the month and get cutting right away.
Thanks for all your help. |
The windlass german bastard sword actually weights more then the hanwei bastard sword...at a much smaller sword :P . Honestly for a sword to tie you over, I would go with the VA practicle longsword or the H/T longsword. Those have the general mass and balance of the sword you are use to for HEMA...are of decent quality and inexpensive. If your interested in that style of sword, waiting for the hanwei rhinelander to come out and see what people say may also be a good idea. |
Well since the VA practical is only $50 more than the German Bastard I guess I'll try ordering that from TherionArms sometime near the end of the month. (KOA is out of stock) Thanks.
"Young knight, learn to love God and revere women; thus your honor will grow. Practice knighthood and learn the Art that dignifies you, and brings you honor in wars." -Johannes Liechtenauer
"...And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one..." Luke 22:36
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Zach Luna
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| Posted: Tue 07 Jun, 2011 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| Michael Edelson wrote: |
| Greg Mele wrote: | | ....I have handled, but never cut with, the Valiant Kriegschwert so all I can say is that the blade form is a good choice, but I can't speak to how wellmade the blade is. |
Valiant Kriegschwert looks great for cutting. I'd love to get my hands on one to test it, as the price is reasonable.
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It does look great for the price. As for how how well-made it is, here's a rather brutal destructive test of one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be6o-4AortM
I've handled and cut with a few Valiant Armoury pieces and they are solid performers. I own a Valiant practical longsword and like it a lot.
| Michael Edelson wrote: |
For tatami the Hanwei TInker longsword is terrible. Even with a shaving sharp 40 degree appleseed edge. |
Wow, terrible? Mike Harris must be even better at this stuff than I thought! 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m29A4XN_xrU&t=5m22s
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Michael Edelson
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| Posted: Tue 07 Jun, 2011 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| Zach Luna wrote: |
| Michael Edelson wrote: |
For tatami the Hanwei TInker longsword is terrible. Even with a shaving sharp 40 degree appleseed edge. |
Wow, terrible? Mike Harris must be even better at this stuff than I thought!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m29A4XN_xrU&t=5m22s |
That's not tatami, that's Bugei Wara (you can tell by how tall it is, the weave and the color), which is about 50% of the density of tatami (and much much more forgiving), and you can see by how much the wara rocks and how far the pieces go flying that he is overpowering his cuts and that the cuts are not clean--in a clean cut the severed piece should fall neatly to the side very close to the mat (not go flying) and in a very clean cut it will hover in place before falling, the remaining mat should not rock. This is only important in martial practice since mats are easy to cut and are only a guage of whether your cut will pass through a human body or get stuck in one.
Back to topic...I have no problem cutting tatami with that sword (after sharpening), but for students who are learning, using that sword will distort technique very badly.
Though in all fairness I should have qualified my statement...for recreational cutters, this sword is probably fine, since overpowering strikes may just be another way to have a good time. For martial arts students, however, the sword is terrible, because of above mentioned distortion.
btw...I had no idea you could specify the starting point for a vid in a youtube link. Thanks! That's awesome.
New York Historical Fencing Association
www.newyorklongsword.com
Byakkokan Dojo
http://newyorkbattodo.com/
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Zach Luna
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| Posted: Tue 07 Jun, 2011 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Ah, I see--thanks for the clarification. I didn't realize it was wara. That stuff is indeed a whole different game than tatami; there's a video out there of a guy cutting through a 7-mat roll of wara without a ton of effort.  Much more forgiving of edge-alignment as well.
| Michael Edelson wrote: | | btw...I had no idea you could specify the starting point for a vid in a youtube link. Thanks! That's awesome. |
No problem!  You just add the little "&t=" tag at the end. I can never remember how to do it right, though, so I just use this converter:
http://youtubetime.com/
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Michael Edelson
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| Posted: Tue 07 Jun, 2011 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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btw...the above is a critique of the sword, not of the person's technique. I cannot critique his technique without understanding why he cuts and what he studies.
New York Historical Fencing Association
www.newyorklongsword.com
Byakkokan Dojo
http://newyorkbattodo.com/
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P. Cha
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| Posted: Tue 07 Jun, 2011 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Michael Edelson wrote: |
Back to topic...I have no problem cutting tatami with that sword (after sharpening), but for students who are learning, using that sword will distort technique very badly.
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Only if the student fails to realize that he is cutting badly...which is the issue I have with using say the hanwei XL lite katana blades. Those blades are so sharp, so thin and so well made for cutting mats that a beginner may totally have the wrong technique and the sword will slide right through the target. Talk about develop bad habits...I hated this sword with a passion and how much bad habits they formed in my JSA class. With say like that longswords, you see the piece go flying, the mat moves, bottles get batted...unless your spot on. If you fail to notice that your overpowering a shot to try and go though, then yes it can become an issue...but that leads back to the goal of the cutting. If it's for fun, yes your goal is to go through...if not, your goal is to do the technique as perfectly as you can (so don't over power the shot and if you fail to go through, work on your technique). I will admit that to refrain from overpowering a shot to kill a particularly stubborn mat is quite difficult and I almost always fail at resisting that...and yes it is frustrating and hard...but who said this was suppose to be easy .
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Michael Edelson
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| Posted: Tue 07 Jun, 2011 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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It's not that simple, P. There is such a thing as a bad sword. I don't know what your longsword cutting experience is, but a longsword is not a katana. Even the worst (real) katana I've ever cut with is an amazing cutter compared to your average longsword. There are longswords, many many of them, with which you can strike a mat with perfect technique and not cut through simply because the sword sucks (for cutting). An experienced cutter can add power without distorting technique, a student can't.
You show me someone who can cut tatami with perfect technique with a Hanwei Tinker and I'll show you a person with superior skills.
New York Historical Fencing Association
www.newyorklongsword.com
Byakkokan Dojo
http://newyorkbattodo.com/
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P. Cha
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| Posted: Tue 07 Jun, 2011 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Michael Edelson wrote: |
You show me someone who can cut tatami with perfect technique with a Hanwei Tinker and I'll show you a person with superior skills. |
But that's the point...to get that superior skill. Even if you must fail a million times to get there. Trust me, I'm not even close yet...but I still work at it.
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Michael Edelson
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| Posted: Tue 07 Jun, 2011 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| P. Cha wrote: | | But that's the point...to get that superior skill. Even if you must fail a million times to get there. Trust me, I'm not even close yet...but I still work at it. |
Yes, and I feel it is important to use tools that help you, not get in your way. Feel free to disagree. No one says everyone has to do things the same way.
New York Historical Fencing Association
www.newyorklongsword.com
Byakkokan Dojo
http://newyorkbattodo.com/
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Mikko Kuusirati
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| Posted: Sat 11 Jun, 2011 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| Michael Edelson wrote: | | Valiant Kriegschwert looks great for cutting. I'd love to get my hands on one to test it, as the price is reasonable. |
I got a chance to take mine to some soda bottles for the first time last weekend. I couldn't get video or pictures of the event, but here's a webcam shot of the first bottle of twelve:
Somewhat, uh, ragged around the edges. I made a lot of noise and smacked the mangled remains a dozen feet away.
And here's the last one:
Smooth, almost silent cut, and if my impromptu cutting stand had been less unstable the bottom would have stayed put. Quite an improvement in just half an hour, wouldn't you say?
BTW, I haven't even touched the edge with anything more abrasive than a towel, yet. It's quite sharp right out of the box.
PS. And yes, the Signature line swords do come with belts, too. They're pretty spiffy.
This was also the first time I've cut while wearing the scabbard. An interesting experience, as it made me pay much more attention to proper footwork, smacking my leg whenever I got "jumpy", but wasn't actually awkward or get in the way at all.
"And sin, young man, is when you treat people like things. Including yourself. That's what sin is."
— Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum
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