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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Tue 22 Feb, 2011 10:39 am    Post subject: Photo request: type Z viking hilts         Reply with quote

I am trying to hunt down photos of swords with type Z viking hilts for a possible upcoming project. Does anyone have some pics that they would be kind enough to share? Any with blade inlay would be particularly appreciated. I will get the ball rolling with a few myself... Thanks!


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E Sideris




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PostPosted: Tue 22 Feb, 2011 10:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's one I found, Tim:


I absolutely love your taste in swords. Do you have a picture of your collection you might not mind posting for me to drool over?

Best,
Elias
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Artis Aboltins




PostPosted: Tue 22 Feb, 2011 11:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is more detailed pic of the hilt of the sword in Kuresaare museum


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Antonio Lamadrid





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PostPosted: Tue 22 Feb, 2011 11:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Sollerön and Dybäck swords.

http://mis.historiska.se/mis/sok/fid.asp?fid=836967
http://mis.historiska.se/mis/sok/fid.asp?fid=108809
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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Tue 22 Feb, 2011 12:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

E Sideris wrote:

I absolutely love your taste in swords. Do you have a picture of your collection you might not mind posting for me to drool over?

Best,
Elias


Thank you! I haven't taken a group shot in a while. I'll see if I can find some time to do it right. I had intended to do a few group shots when one of my outstanding projects gets here. I may just wait until then to do so. I'll let you know when I do.

Thanks for the pics guys! More if you got them...
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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Tue 22 Feb, 2011 12:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Artis Aboltins wrote:
Here is more detailed pic of the hilt of the sword in Kuresaare museum


Thanks for this Artis! I really like this one. Have you seen it up close? If so, does it have any inlay in the hilt or blade? Thanks!
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Artis Aboltins




PostPosted: Tue 22 Feb, 2011 1:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well I have only had a chance to examine it through the glass in museum - I just checked with the original images I took on my last visit to the museum, and it is impossible to discern if there was any inlay or not due to corrosion damage. However, on the first oportunity I will have I will take a closer look at it, or maybe one of our friends from Estonia will get a chance to do so sooner than I will. I would say there is a good chance there was some sort of inlay work on the hilt at least - plenty of swords from same periof and region have them - you can see it clearly on the pictures from the same museum, and that sword appears to have been a fine specimen when it was made.
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Tue 22 Feb, 2011 1:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Cool photos...

The only thing I have like this is the Windlass damascus sword, loosely based on the Finnish type Z. It looks nice enough, but the blade is historically inaccurate for the hilt and its a real b**ch to handle with its sharp pointy furniture.

Looks like an interesting tax refund, I mean sword design, Holmes. Wink
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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Tue 22 Feb, 2011 4:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J.D. Crawford wrote:
Cool photos...

The only thing I have like this is the Windlass damascus sword, loosely based on the Finnish type Z. It looks nice enough, but the blade is historically inaccurate for the hilt and its a real b**ch to handle with its sharp pointy furniture.

Looks like an interesting tax refund, I mean sword design, Holmes. Wink


Oh, the tax refund is already spoken for. Something far more devious than a type Z vike I'm afraid. This is for the *not* tax refund, Moriarty. Wink
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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Feb, 2011 8:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Still looking for pics, if anyone has some please post... I'll post another one to start.


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Boris Bedrosov
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PostPosted: Sat 26 Feb, 2011 1:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi, Tim!

Some pictures from Regional Historical Museum - Vratza, BULGARIA











The sword is dated to 10. - 12. C., a period which roughly corresponds with the destruction of the First Bulgarian Empire (end of 10. - first half of 11. C). There is still on-going debate about its origin - varangian, Rus, central-european, local copy.
From it only the hilt and just a tiny fraction of the blabe have survived. It was found near village of Gradeshnitza, Vratza Region in the North-west part of Bulgaria

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
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Jeff Pringle
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PostPosted: Sun 27 Feb, 2011 7:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

From Kirpičnikov, "Old Russian Weapons," a Z and and a type II that looks Z-ish to me...


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Tim Jorgensen




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PostPosted: Sun 27 Feb, 2011 8:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure I saw some in the galleries from the VIKVERIR website, but I'm not able to copy and paste the pics:

http://www.vikverir.no/museum_gallery.html

Tim Jorgensen
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Mikko Kuusirati




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PostPosted: Tue 01 Mar, 2011 4:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are a number of these and closely related forms in István Rácz's photo book Viikinkien perintö. I don't have a scanner and my place is kinda cramped and poorly lit, so I'm sorry about the quality of my photos of his photos, but here you go... I'll translate the captions for everybody's convenience while I'm at it.

"86. A sword found in Södermanland, Sweden, made in the late 10th Century. - The sword's pommel is shaped like two bears looking in opposite directions. The pommel, upper guard and cross are decorated with spirals and animals with dotted bodies. The decoration is in the so called Mammen style. Södermanland Södertälje, SHM 20981."

(Perhaps not quite a type Z, with the curving instead of angled guards, but whatever, might as well throw it in. And I find these double-beast pommels an interesting variation on the five lobes of type Z.)



"87. Two 10th Century swords found in central Sweden. - There is silver inlay on the guards and pommels of both swords. Both blades feature a wide and shallow central groove, the purpose of which is to lighten the blade without compromising durability. The blade of the sword on the right has a "damascene" texture in the groove, produced by forging together different kinds of steel. Left Södermanland Österhaninge Norrby, SHM 20832. Right Dalarna Söllerö Bengtsarvet, SHM 22293."



"92. A sword, a battle axe and a spear from Sweden. - The axe's flats and the spearhead's socket are decorated with silver inlay. The sword's hilt is gold. A sword was a particularly valued gift that a king might give to a trusty hirdman or other favorite. The Kringla Heimsins epic tells of a sword by the English king Adalstein to his adopted son Hakon, later the king of Norway: "King Adalstein gave Hakon a sword, the grip and guard of which were gold. The blade was even better; with it Hakon cleft a millstone down to its hole. It was then called Millstonebiter. It is the best sword of all ever brought to Norway. Hakon had it until his death." The sword: Skåne Östra Vemmenshös, SHM 4515. The axe: Småland Hultsjö Prästgården, SHM 437. The spearhead: Öland Torslunda Kåtorp, SHM 14913."

(I included this one mainly because of the angled guards... the pommel is lost, but it could have been a five-lobed type Z, you know? Happy)



"98. Swords found in Finland. - The three swords on the left belong to the Viking period. The two hilts on the right are from a later date. They belong to the so called Karelia crusade period. [I think this refers to the Third Swedish Crusade.] A peculiar form of decorative art developed in Karelia in the 12th Century, combining ancient vine and animal motifs. Some of these were borrowed from Scandinavian Viking art. Left to right: Finland Proper Perniö Tiikkinummi, KM 7752:37. Finland Proper Maaria Taskula, KM 10842:39. Satakunta Vesilahti Hukari, KM 2886:11. Karelia Kaukola Kekomäki, KM 2995:75. Karelia Sakkola Kiviniemi, KM 7810."


The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs -- I was a man before I was a king.
-- R. E. Howard, The Road of Kings
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Matthew Stagmer
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PostPosted: Tue 01 Mar, 2011 7:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeff Pringle wrote:
From Kirpičnikov, "Old Russian Weapons," a Z and and a type II that looks Z-ish to me...


Jeff do you know any more on that bottem photo you posted? That guard looks pretty late. I am working on one just like that and I had thought it to be a bit modern looking for the tri lobe pommel but as pictured here it looks like a match.

Its getting harder and harder to make a contemporary viking sword. Happy

Matthew Stagmer
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Jeff Pringle
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PostPosted: Wed 02 Mar, 2011 12:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It is listed as XII-XIII C., though he claims the hilt type can go as early as XI and as late as XIII C.
Loosely translated, he says:
“Type II. Swords with three-part bronze or iron, and central knob is usually somewhat bulged in width... It is very possible that this is an Eastern European form. In any case in Western Europe, such samples are unknown to us, except for Russia, they occur in the Baltic countries (for example, Passelse).”
I've attached a scaled drawing Cool
OAL: 86.4cm
Blade L: 70.7cm
Hilt L: 15.6cm
Width near cross: 4.4cm
Width 3cm from tip: 2.1
Cross L: 14.5
Cross Width: 0.7
Width of tang: 1.7
Width of Pommel: 7.8
Height of pommel: 4.6



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Matthew Stagmer
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PostPosted: Wed 02 Mar, 2011 6:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeff Pringle wrote:
It is listed as XII-XIII C., though he claims the hilt type can go as early as XI and as late as XIII C.
Loosely translated, he says:
“Type II. Swords with three-part bronze or iron, and central knob is usually somewhat bulged in width... It is very possible that this is an Eastern European form. In any case in Western Europe, such samples are unknown to us, except for Russia, they occur in the Baltic countries (for example, Passelse).”
I've attached a scaled drawing Cool
OAL: 86.4cm
Blade L: 70.7cm
Hilt L: 15.6cm
Width near cross: 4.4cm
Width 3cm from tip: 2.1
Cross L: 14.5
Cross Width: 0.7
Width of tang: 1.7
Width of Pommel: 7.8
Height of pommel: 4.6


Perfect Jeff. Thanks a ton. It even has a narrow tapered fuller like I was planning. I was planning a carved wood handle and this exact hilt set up. I owe you one, or two, or three maybe. See you soon.

Matthew Stagmer
Maker of custom and production weaponry
www.BaltimoreKnife.com
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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Wed 02 Mar, 2011 9:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the great photos everyone! Keep them coming if you got them!
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