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William J Welch




Location: knoxville, tn
Joined: 18 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Mon 14 Feb, 2011 1:20 pm    Post subject: 15th century Armor Kit, Where to start         Reply with quote

I have been wanting to put together a 15th century kit for some time now. But the question is where to start? Helm, Breast and back plate, or what.

Have been looking at every armory site on the net that I can find. Think Illusion is a good place to start. What is the general consensus as to which armorer is good, bad, or not worth the trouble.

Thanks

William J Welch

Brotherhood of St Luke.
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Bartek Strojek




Location: Poland
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon 14 Feb, 2011 1:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, AFAIK, it's best to start from pants, shirt and boots.

Then you can check how you feel in it, and collect some fitting kit.


Last edited by Bartek Strojek on Mon 14 Feb, 2011 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Scott Hrouda




Location: Minnesota, USA
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PostPosted: Mon 14 Feb, 2011 1:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would tend to agree. When pulling together the components of my mid-14th century kit I went straight for the armour bits first because armour is very visible and very cool. Using this method was a mistake on my part.

If you start with solid foundation garments, then the armour bits you add later will fit and function properly. As with any good building project: start with a plan, build the foundation and then add the upper-story and decorative bits.

A good thread and reference to 15th century garments is Guide on 15th century Men Clothing which links to the Company of Saynt George and the wonderful research they've pulled together.

Good luck!

...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
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Emil Andersson




Location: Sweden
Joined: 17 Oct 2010

Posts: 136

PostPosted: Mon 14 Feb, 2011 1:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'll agree with the other gentlemen in this thread. I did, however, start out with a pair of gauntlets and sabatons, but luckily those are the parts that'll work despite of what you might add in later. Happy

Go for the garment foundation first, and then work from there.
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William J Welch




Location: knoxville, tn
Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 29

PostPosted: Mon 14 Feb, 2011 2:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very good! i had downloaded this sometime ago, and its resource is really what steered me to the 15th, before that I couldn't at all decide. I am slowly building garments for a foundation. After that what would be good?
William J Welch

Brotherhood of St Luke.
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Bartek Strojek




Location: Poland
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PostPosted: Mon 14 Feb, 2011 2:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, why not in order people were generally doing it, while affording armor (if they had means to do so)?

Helmet, then more or less complete torso.... Then the rest may follow.

That's at least my humble idea. Wink
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Emil Andersson




Location: Sweden
Joined: 17 Oct 2010

Posts: 136

PostPosted: Mon 14 Feb, 2011 2:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Finding a pair of gauntlets could also be a good way to proceed after you have your foundation, though. The use of gauntlets during practice can be stressed in order to become familiar with how they affect your handling. Being able to get accustomed to that as soon as possible shouldn't hurt.

Edit: It also helps that gauntlets tend to be exceedingly beautiful, too. Happy
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Daniel Staberg




Location: Gothenburg/Sweden
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PostPosted: Mon 14 Feb, 2011 2:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For a basic portrayal to start with I would recomend helmet, throat/neck protection (i.e mail standard or bevor) and simple body armour (breastplate, brigandine or Jack) Gauntlets are also a good part if you need them/can fit them into the budget.
With those parts of armour you will look like a soldier.

Today plate armour such as breastplates is often cheaper than labour intensive items like brigandines and Jacks. The later can be made at home with the right tools and lots of patience if you try to make a an accurate reconstruction using numerous layers of linnen.

"There is nothing more hazardous than to venture a battle. One can lose it
by a thousand unforseen circumstances, even when one has thorougly taken all
precautions that the most perfect military skill allows for."
-Fieldmarshal Lennart Torstensson.
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Andrew McKinnon




Location: Sydney
Joined: 08 Feb 2007

Posts: 12

PostPosted: Mon 14 Feb, 2011 5:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would decide on what I want to represent. Then reference some images or effigies. Make sure the kit relates to what you want to do with it, that is, do you want to do MMA or joust or just look damn good.

If you are wearing 15thC harness then you need a custom made arming jacket for whatever you are doing. Historic Enterprises is the go. Custom made is a must and for the money you can't beat Gwen's arming jacket. May as well get the rest of your soft kit from there as well.

What is your budget? Do you need munitions grade or can you afford tempered spring steel?

Always spend a little more than you intend to cause not only does armour have the bling factor it is protective as well.

Bespoke armour moves better and is more protective than off the rack stuff.

If you are on a budget, some armour coming out of the Ukraine is pretty good value. I have bought some pieces to complement my latest joust harness cause tempered spring is hellishly expensive!

Don't rush the planning part! It is a fun part of getting your kit together and if you get it wrong it can lead to expensive mistakes.

Hope that helps and above all have fun!!!

Andrew McKinnon
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Ian S LaSpina




Location: Virginia, US
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Mon 14 Feb, 2011 5:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd hate to kick a dead horse here, but I'm going to anyway... Laughing Out Loud

I jumped in, wanting all the flashy armor bits first and it was a huge mistake for 2 reasons:

1. I had a lack of period knowledge when I started out (not to imply Im an expert now, but its amazing how ignorant I was), and the desire for instant gratification got the better of me, and before I really did the research, I started making purchases. When I finally did do the research I came to the realization that I had made a lot of superfluous purchases and now have a bunch of low-quality, period inappropriate crap, for lack of a better term.

2. Now that I had a much better idea of what I needed and what was appropriate for my time period, I started looking for the foundation garments I should have gotten in the first place. Once I had those, I got to start re-purchasing armor that was both of higher quality and period appropriate. So you can see this results in a very expensive and wasteful way to arrive at the same goal.

So, I cant stress enough from someone who is new to this as I am, that its worth it to do the research first, and get the foundation garments first, then put in the time researching armorers. I would avoid the massed produce stuff out there and find a reputable armorer that does good quality work. You may pay more money for individual pieces, but they're going to last you, they're going to fit better, they're going to move better, and they're going to be more accurate. Unfortunately, in this field there are a lot of crooks and a lot of horror stories out there. I recommend Allan Senefelder at Mercenary's Tailor. He has unmatched customer service, and is a hard working, honest man to deal with that does outstanding work. There are lots of others out there, but it's most definitely worth it to do the homework first before diving in.

My $0.02, oh and another great resource for checking out reviews on Armourers is the Armour Archive. A quick search of their forums will often tell you who to avoid and who can be trusted.

Ian

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