[Robert Hinds]

Very interesting topic! This really got me thinking.

Even tho I have not been in this hobby for too long (although i've always loved the middle ages) I do have alot of experience here. My friend and I frequently go on hikes in our full kits on the little used trails around our area (and although we dont go out for all day it can still give you a good idea), it's amazing how much a surcoat, arming cap, maille coif and norman helm affect long distance running.

If you're going for speed, i'd say maybe a jack with jack chains (if it gets too hot unlace and travel with it open maybe?), an open face sallet or celeta, sword and buckler combo, a dagger and then a spear/glaive/halberd/voulge. And also some sort of pack for your camping supplies and food.

I'd keep the legs free for speed, keep swinging/hanging items to a minimum because that gets really annoying when you're trying to run and makes it more difficult. I added the spear due to its effectiveness at keeping things at bay and its usefulness as a walking stick.

That's If you're travelling around by yourself, which as some have pointed out you probably would'nt be doing back then (unless maybe you're running from the law?)

[Benjamin H. Abbott]

[Robert Hinds]

Did wagon and cart drivers not travel alone? They're often depicted alone in period artwork. Of course, they didn't go around on foot.[/quote]

I don't know about wagon cart drivers, most of the books I read are on warfare and so lack in facts about civilian life in the middle ages. The book I am currently reading says that even commoners who were traveling often travelled in small groups for safety from outlaws...but then again it is a book about medieval warfare...

[Hendrik De Coster]

since i'm leaving for la levée here's my last report before i depart. here's a quick list of items i'll be carrying:
*in the backpack:
-food such as a bread, saucages,some vegetables etc
-bried breech and tinder along with a firestrycker
-eating utensils(2 bowls; a large one and one that will serve as a drinking vessel, knife, spoon etc)
-some herbs to spice our soup
-various nuts
-a second pair of split hosen as well as a spare shirt
-TOILETPAPER!!!!
-some ropes
-a candle or 2 so i'll have a light should i need to take a crap during nighttime(you'll want some light then!)

*hung over my shoulders by a simple rope tied around it:
-the small awning( as we'll be expecting rain)
- a roll consisting of my cloak, an extra arming doublet(which will keep me warm while my gambeson is drying above the fire if we manege to start and keep one going) and that all will be covered by a sheep skin (to lay on the ground)

*tied to my belt:
-working knife
-sword in scabbard
-possibly a sharp axe if i manege to make it look more period
-waterbag

*what i'll be wearing/carrying during the day:
-joined hosen
-rolled up split hosen
-turnshoes
-pourpoint
-shirt
-gambeson
-hood
-sallet
-knitted wool gloves
-pike

when i get back i'll try to write down a report of how it all went.


and now i'm going to enjoy the last night i'll be sleeping in a warm soft bed!

[Christian G. Cameron]

Hi--I'm a historical trekker--so I spend a couple of weeks every summer and four days every winter in the deep wilderness in historical kit.

I have a suit of late 14th c. plate which I would happily wear all day--but I'd rather wear it on horseback all day. But my 5th c BCE scale armor (Ancient Greek) is comfortable and has pretty good protection. Either way--and this is my point--its the weight of my gear--my tent if any, my weapons, my food (3 pounds a day at least) my water (that again) my cookware and my clothes that will really annoy me--armour, if well-fitted is not really the issue. I could even make an argument that a breast and backplate serve a as pack frame for heavy loads. In my 18th c. ranger gear, my combat load is about 45 pounds with a 14 pound gun, a sword, and a tomahawk; tent or oilskin tarp, ball ammo (32 rounds of .625 ball weighs a lot), canteen, food--etc. Oddly, in real world modern Africa, my combat load was a little more--just shy of 60 pounds. Now, my armour alone weighs a little less and is WAY easier to wear, so if allowed, I'd like to opt for a horse, 5 servants, an armed groom with a crossbow, a small wagon, and me i full armour with a longsword and a light lance--I'll protect the rest of the convoy...



Chris

[Hendrik De Coster]

ok so yesterday i got back from la levée here's the inventory of all the things i took with me:
*in the backpack:
-food such as a bread, saucages,some vegetables etc
-bried breech and tinder along with a firestrycker
-eating utensils(2 bowls; a large one and one that will serve as a drinking vessel, knife, spoon etc)
-some herbs to spice our soup
-various nuts
-a second pair of split hosen as well as a spare shirt
-TOILETPAPER!!!!
-some ropes
-a candle or 2 so i'll have a light should i need to take a crap during nighttime(you'll want some light then!)

*hung over my shoulders by a simple rope tied around it:
-the small awning( as we'll be expecting rain)
- a roll consisting of my cloak and a sheep skin (to lay on the ground)

*tied to my belt:
-working knife
-sword in scabbard
-waterbag

*what i'll be wearing/carrying during the day:
-joined hosen
-turnshoes
-pourpoint
-shirt
-gambeson
-hood
-sallet
-knitted wool gloves
-pike

when i look at all the stuff i took with me i can conclude i took way too much stuff with me, i ended up not using my split hosen nor the other shirt, didn't eat any of the nuts and since everybody took some tinder with him i didn't need mine either. had we been traveling for a longer period this would all come in usefull though

the bad idea;
-using the sheep skin to lay on, it's way more usefull to make a canvas bag you can stuff with farens or straw or leaves
the best idea;
-to bring the awning

[Hendrik De Coster]

and the review itself:
PART I; the spring

On friday we arrived at the military domain at about 7 in the evening(it was already dark). we put on our kit, eliminated a few more items from our inventory and marched into the forest with our small group of 7,the luitenant, a handgunner an archer and 4 billmen. our luitenant decided that we would only light a small candle to keep our nightwatch going on while we were waiting for the other french billmen to arrive.after some sleepless hours i finaly managed to get myself in the right position and fell asleep. when we awoke the next day we marched on to an open ground and decided to wait there for the frenchmen to arrive. while we were waiting we started a little fire and made some tea while eating our breakfast. an hour later or so the frenchmen finally arrived and we marched on in search for the water spring. our luitenant decided to make me the dizanier after some try-outs using the english and the french as dizainier( the french didn't speak english, the english didn't speak any french). after some serious marching we finaly found the spring, put up a camp and had a nice midday meal.

Part II; taking the noblemans' son as a hostage

After we made camp our luitenant gave us our second objecive(besides keeping him alive). We were to capture a nobleman's son who had gathered some mercenaries as his bodyguard. Since there was a farm were the organisation had put some supplies i decided to march towards te farm, leaving our bagages in our camp. The march itself went fine without any hostile action but when we arrived there was a small skirmish battle. We managed to stop the ill-disciplined enemies and overran them with our pikeline. right after this clash we decided to do some more battles just for fun and where the enemy wanted to test my pikeline. first we did one in the open ground which we won. then we did one into the forest which we won also and as a third they wanted to make it hard for us; we were to march into some really dense high grass/bushed where working as a pikeblock was hard. but even despite this terrain we still won over the badly organized opponents.
After this and having a beer we went back to our camp. By the time we arrived there it was once again dark.

Part III; the night attack

When we got back to our camp we started the fire and prepared some soup. everybody was exhausted(especially the french who had been awake the whole previous night looking for us) so instead of ordering the men to do a nightwatch i decided to do this on my own. I couldn't sleep because of the snorring anyway
My key trick to stay awake was to drink an insane amount of water so i had to go take a pee evey now and then. when later on in the night i was preparing myself to make a wee i suddently heard a french voice jelling "qui vas la?"(who goes there). Since i wasn't sure if it was one of our guys who went to take a leek or the opponent i immediatly grabed my pike and called for the alarm. by the time any of my men awoke from their sleep the entire enemy company was already in our camp, yet they surrendered to me. Apparently they had left their camp right after the dark to make a surpise attack on our camp but they got lost along the way and had been marching for about 4-5 hours in the dark along muddy roads. After they had heated themselves a bit they left for their camp. After this we had a quit night.

In the morning we broke up our camp and marched towards the farm and when we got there the game was over.

all in all it was a really cool experience and i'm definatly looking forward to the next edition

[Scott Woodruff]

That is really cool! I would love to spend a week in the mountains in kit, and am planning on doing just that once I have finished (is a kit ever really finished?) If I wanted to travel light, I would be quite confident against attack with a sling, a bow and a spear, maybe a buckler. Kill attackers long before they can fight hand to hand, and if it comes to hand to hand, Germainic peoples have long said that a spear is worth 2 swords.

I recently joined a Viking reenactment group that insists that newbies fight with sword and shield, supposedly for safeties sake, but I would feel much safer with a 5' rake handle than with sword and spear. It is almost too easy to take down all but the most experienced fighters when you have a couple of feet of range on them, as long as your footwork is up to snuff.

[Robert Hinds]

Scott is right, that is really cool! I've thought about going on a hike/camping trip in my kit-to-be, but there's too many hikers on the camp site trail's around here... It would be funny to see the look on a hiker's face when they turn a corner and come face to face with a guy in armour.

Looks like I'll have to stick to just hiking on the non-campsite trails.

[Scott Woodruff]

Robert, don't worry about hikers. They are usually either amused or interested, and screw those who aren't. I used to regularly gird on my 1863 New Model Army revolver and looong bowie knife, put on my cowboy hat and walk up the suburban bike trail 3 miles to the Sandia mountains. Only one person ever noticeably noticed me, he was a ranger and was quite interested in my gun, we had a very pleasant conversation. Last week I went to the grocery store after sword practice and forgot to take off my gauntlets. Got a few strange looks, but didn't realize why till I got home It is often more fun to be different in groups, but I am an individualist and have no problem sticking out. As training for viking reenactment, I plan on jogging 3 miles a day in full gear including my 13lb shield. Joggers will just have to get used to me. I also live in one of the most corrupt, crime-infested places you can live outside the third world, and 90% of the people you see are extremely paranoid and unfriendly under the best of circumstances, while another 5% are out to get you. I'll probably be attacked by thugs with guns and knives less often when armed as a viking. I am not sure, but I think the corrupt gestapo-thugs (APD) would probably just be amused. Have you ever seen a police officer curb-dog an old lady? Not a pretty sight, but that is the world I live in.

[Christian G. Cameron]

I'm with Scott. I'm out in kit on trails AND in major metropolitan Toronto==never had any but pleasant interactions.

Who gets unpleasant with a guy in armour? or with a gun?

[Robert Hinds]

That's cool about jogging in your viking kit scott, I've thought about going jogging in my billman kit in spring/fall to get used to it. My main worry about that is that my parents will think I'm insane. Especially my dad, he's not too supportive of my hobby.

It's not so much the armour I'm worried about as much as the weapons. The area I live in has some pretty tough knife laws...actually knives aren't allowed at all unless you can prove your using them for work. I got warned for having a 3" folding pocket knife. So how would a 3 foot sword go over? Knife laws might not apply, I don't know.

My friend and I have and still do go hiking with weapons, either sharp or blunt (which can make for cool spontaneous sparring in the middle of the woods) but we usually try to avoid the byciclyst groups, which kind of adds to the fun to be honest. I'm worried that if I set up a camp a forrest ranger might wander by and take exception to someone sitting next to a fire oiling a sword...

Either that or he'll pass out thinking he's wandered through a time portal.

[Scott Woodruff]

Robert, I feel for you. The viking reenactment group I recently joined originates in the UK, where all edged tools and weapons are strictly controlled and curved single-edged swords, blunt or sharp, are for some reason expressly forbidden. Luckily, most of the society rules on real weapons do not apply in NM. I would feel perfectly comfortable jogging from my suburban home up the bike trail to the mountains, where I could practice sword drills and throw spears to my hearts content, as long as I carry no fire, firearms, bows, crossbows, glass bottles etc. It helps that I maintain a fairly good relationship with the local Forest Rangers, helping out with trash and graffiti. Stepping outside my shop in the so-called "war-zone" or "crack-infested ghetto" is another matter. Besides knife-throwing crack-heads (only happened once) and the racial-profiling, corrrupt, drug-selling, prostitute-raping, old-lady-bashing, steroid-hyped APD officers and their crack-head informant lackeys (yes, I have personally either seen or experienced all these and much more) I wont set foot outside my shop without extreme precautions (concealed fire-arm with concealed carry license, nothing worth stealing, aside from the cheap gun, on my person, dressed extremely inconspicuously, in an extremely calm and alert state of mind. Thank God that that environment makes up only a small proportion of the beautiful and magical "Land of Enchantment."

[Pieter B.]

Traveling by foot and wearing armor forces one to make compromises. A thing we need to keep in mind is layering, to be able to take some clothes off when you start to sweat and put a layer on when it is cold. To easily remove or put on another layer of clothing with armor one is a hard thing to do. The best way to allow one to easily change layers would probably be to keep a breathable armor close to the body so he can keep that layer on at all times.

Next to this there is the issue of rain or snow, it will soak gambesons, makes iron rust, heads cold and turn feet into festering stumps. I don't believe there is an all seasons kind of kit that would work but I think the following will be reasonable comfortable while also not to burdensome.

-linen shirt and underwear
-joined/split hose
-sleeveless mail shirt (hip or groin height) with chamois leather liner to stop chaffing and mail collar
-knee high leather boots waterproofed to the best of ones ability
-Thin (say 10/16 layer) gambeson over the mail with a jack of chains protecting the arms. Gambeson or padded doublet should be full of holes to allow ventilation.





The result of all this could reasonable protection from arrows, bolts and sword blows without causing to much of a heating problem. If you want to weatherproof it against rain than wearing a thin woolen/felt coat with lots of oil in it and a gugel/hood could be worn over this.

[Tom King]

Historically people traveling on foot would usually travel in the largest group they could '(if possible piggyback on the muscle of a merchant caravan or well to do travelers on horse) and just carry a ~7 foot hardwood staff with a metal tip. If accosted, the walking stick becomes a darn effective weapon; long enough to keep a lightly armed bandit at bay and capable of deadly damage.

If I had enough money to afford the expense and risk of carrying more than a knife (the sword on my hip would likely be worth far more than anything I'd be carrying on my person, and if some peasant revolt decided they wanted it I'd either have to hand it over or be billhooked to death) , I'd most likely be riding at least a palfrey.


If I was ambling along and thought I'd potentially be accosted, the heaviest I'd go is probably an arming sword and buckler, paired with a brigandine over normal civilian clothes. On foot that weight is better suited to other uses.