[Sander Marechal]

Hi all. I am looking for images of extant kettle hats, preferably 13th century like you see in the Maciejowski bible. The search function and Google are being absolutely useless to me. There are just too many people talking about, making or selling reproduction kettle hats. I found a few images of much later kettle hats, like the one with the nice fluted top. But nothing like the basic kettle hat that is sold so much as a reproduction.

Thanks in advance!

[Elling Polden]

Though it's probably not that usefull to you, here's a picture of the Norwegian finds, dating from the 13th c. onward.
As you can see, most of them are of the distinctive, scandinavian "onion head" style. This kind of helmet is depicted all the way from the 12th to 16th c, though there are also illustration of the "standard" european style.

[Sam Gordon Campbell]

I myself have been looking for a chapel-de-fer (espesicaly after watching 'The Seventh Seal'), but one that was by far and large rarely produced, and those looks like some nice examples. Would wood and/or leather be used to fill the 'gaps'?
Oh, and may I say, you two have got to get together and do battle, 'cause you're both some of the most helpfull on here

[Elling Polden]

thanks. I would surely take the time to hunt down Sander if I ever find myself in the netherlands.
the helmets are all metal; some of the thinner side pannels have simply corroded away. They have been laying around for 6-800 years, after all.
These helmets are of advanced craftsmanship, and typically vary a lot in thickness. For instance, the edge of the brim in very thick, narrowing to 1,5mm towards the base. The same goes for the "ribbons" over the top. The side panels are, as can be seen form the corrosion, very thin.

[Sander Marechal]

Thanks for the image and information Elling. As you said, not quite what I am looking for but interesting nonetheless. What piqued my interest was your comment about kettle hats with wide brims in my thread on kettle hats and spears. I was wondering how wide a brim should be and I realised I could not remember seeing any pictures of extant kettle hats like that, just paintings.

Since starting this thread I spent another couple of hours on Google without any success. I am guessing that they were hardly ever kept and treasured, being infantry helmets and not expensive knight helmets. But I would have expected some to turn up in bog finds or battlefield graves and the like.

@Sam: I'd certainly like the opportunity one day to field our Knight Hospitaller group against Elling's group. It would be quite a sight I think!

[Elling Polden]

I think it could just as well be a case of "never whent out of use" than not treasured. A "timeless" design, the kettlehatt remained in use untill they where discardable. In contrast, knightly helms where subject to a quite rapid technological development, and quickly became outdated, beeing turned into decorative items.

[Sander Marechal]

@Elling: Yep, that could be it too.

Well, let's try something else then. Any pictures of particularly good and accurate reproductions? Thing is, out Hospitallers group is working out a deal with a local smith. He'll make us helmets in exchange for us making him a full soft kit, shield, etcetera. Everything but the steel bits (weapins, armour). I'd like to provide him with some images or drawings of a well proportioned kettle hat. I have seen far too many disproportioned kettle hat reproductions. Some with very wide brims. Some with brims that don't slope downward. Many are simply too big with too deep a dome because they want to accommodate SCA-style blue-foam padding.

Again, thanks in advance!

[Thomas R.]

Hi Sander,

so I am back from vacation in Denmark and checking the latest 200 (!) postings at myArmoury.com ... And I've got a little something for you. I don't think it's 13th century, but I recall, it hung between some 14th century swiss daggers and Poleaxes. It's a kettle hat, shown at the Reichsmuseum at Rothenburg ob der Tauber. So have a look. I am checking my photos for further pieces and/or a good shots of my repro helmet. But I think you already know the piece I am talking about.

So long,
Thomas

[Thomas R.]

So, i found a shot of my kettle hat. It seems at first hand a little big, but I need this size for light padding and the maille coif. Inside is an adjustable leather inlet. I bought it from a german website, but I think it may well be a hanwei product. Nevertheless it's clearly inspired by pictures from the Morgan Picture Bible.

Thomas

PS@Elling: Don't miss on me in germany. If you ever come to the netherlands, drop by.

[Elling Polden]

hehe... Looks like we'll have to fight our way throug all of continental Europe. :P

[Sander Marechal]

Thanks for those images Thomas. They are very useful.

[Thomas R.]

So... I checked the photos I took in denmark and found a kettle hat. It is part of the medieval exhibition in the danish national museum at Copenhague. You are lucky, because it's only accidently in the shot. I photographed a big pavese on the right side. I cropped the helmets for your convenience. It's one of those nordic kettle helmets with these bulging domes. Not my favorite example.

Thomas

[Sander Marechal]

Great image, thanks. It looks like it was raised from a single piece, is that right? I don't see any rivets or holes around the base of the brim like in the other images posted in this thread so far.

[Chad Arnow]

[Thomas R.]

Hi Chad,

you are lucky. In Nathans The Dane-thread is another photo of this great helmet (a shot taken from the other side!). I'll link it for you, so you can start your own new thread Perhaps Greg Coffman has another shot of the helmet? May be worth to ask him. And while being offtopic, I am not. Because the picture shows the backside of the kettle hat as well. And it seems that it is truly not riveted.

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp51/gcoff...rd1210.jpg

Regards,
Thomas

[Elling Polden]

Here's some more detailed pictures of some Norwegian kettlehats... And, oh, the gjermundbu helmet.

http://www.unimus.no/arkeologi/#/listView?div...y=artifact

[Sander Marechal]

Thanks! Sorry I didn't see this sooner. I was away on vacation to the middle of nowhere without internet access.