[Sander Marechal]

Well, I did it. I busted my right index finger during some friendly freeplay with rebated steel longswords. I was wearing padded gloves, but those were really training gloves, not sparring gloves. The doctor says it's badly bruised but I suspect it's broken after all. It's been a week and the swelling hasn't started to dimnish, so I'm going back for X-rays.

Anyway, this incident has put "proper hand protection" a lot higher on my list. As in, the next thing to buy. I am looking into the period 1050-1300. Something like mail mittens or gloves probably. I'm open to suggestions. I know that the standard would be integral mittens on a hauberk but I would like to use separate mittens or gloves instead.

I have been looking around various websites but most mail hand protection seems to be just for decoration or protection against accidental grazing. Not something you'd want to wear during free play. So instead I am contemplating on building my own. But how would I go about it? Mail is flexible so I'd still need padding, but how much? What kind? I don't want something that ends up looking like a mail-covered boxing glove or baseball glove.

I found a post from someone here on this forum who built (butted) mail mittens using an 8-in2 pattern instead on 4-in-1, so the mail would be thicker and more rigid. It sounds like a plan though the gloves become heavy. As an compromise, could I perhaps use 6-in-1 riveted mail? I guess that would be more rigid than 4-in-1.

The only other thing I found so far is this guide on safe gloves (PDF) by The Vikings, who participate in the Battle of Hastings reenactment. They call for gloves padded with 6mm leather or 2mm leather plus maille.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[Thom R.]

ouch, sorry to hear about that but don't fret - we have all been there and done that ...... I was trying to warn another mA member who recently has been asking about gauntlets about this. really if you don't have to be true to an early period then you should really use full plate mitten gauntlets when playing with steel even rattan or wood for that matter

but i realize you want to be true to your period. so..... are you open to using modern padding material? provided it is hidden? if so try to find some eva foam sheet. like this

http://www.windrosearmoury.com/zc/index.php?m...ucts_id=93

for your period i would get or make a good mitten glove, then make a sandwich over the fingers and back of the hand, glove, eva foam, leather cover and then mail. eva foam or padding will be completely hidden. if not eva then some kind of quilting with many layers of fabric (linen or wool) will work but it is a lot more effort. the eva foam is used by folks in the sca here in the states for a good reason, it is dense enough to provide a good cushion, but is still flexible enough to be used for something like this. what won't work is to quilt with modern polyfill stuffing like for pillows, it simply won't give you enough protection. there is another thread here that showed some good glove alternatives too. tr

ps if broken make sure you get it set properly. i have learned that the hard way too.

[Sander Marechal]

[Scott Hrouda]

Ouch Sander Been there and done that.

Even though my area of interest is mid-thirteenth century, I wear anachronistic clam-shell gauntlets when fighting for this very reason. I can predict the weather by how bad my right thumb throbs to this day.

You might want to look at DarkHeart Armoury's Stealth Gauntlets that "resemble leather gloves from a distance".

[Elling Polden]

Our reenactment combat group is based in the 13th c. We don't use mail mittens a lot, but rely on open palm padded gloves. Typically 5-6 layers of woolen carpet covered with linen will do the trick.
The difficult part, as you have allready expericenced, is covering the top of the index finger. This is done by making the leather palm piece a bitt narrower than the padding, so that the padding curves. The thumb piece also needs to be stitched far enough forward for the padding to close tightly around the crossguard.

We use these padded gloves for full speed sparring, so they can be plenty good enough.

[Sander Marechal]

[Sam Gordon Campbell]

[David Teague]

[Craig Shackleton]

If you decide to build your own mail gloves and want a denser weave than four in one, I really think that the six in one looks and moves better than the eight in two. Your mileage may vary.

I honestly doubt the historical authenticity of either pattern, but if I had to choose one of them as a likely candidate for the so-called "double mail," I would favour the six in one. Again, YMMV. And there are tons of folks here that probably know more about it than me.

[Dan Howard]

6-in-1 definitely was used. The example in the British Museum was confirmed a few years ago.

[Craig Shackleton]

Wow! I didn't know that there was a surviving example. That's awesome!

I'll have to look into it!

[Sander Marechal]

Thanks for the link David. That thread has some interesting ideas. Those 6mm icefalcon gloves look like a good project piece for a good price.

@Dan: Good to hear that 6-in-1 was used historically.

[Felix R.]

You can also bzuy yourself maile patches with 6mm rings here in Europe. You just have to cut out the hand shape from those patches. That will be much cheaper than buying gauntlets from oversea, that you have to strip and midify anyway.

[K J Seago]

on a slight tangeant, anyone know of anyone who does three finger (or 2 finger 1 thumb) mittens?
been thinking about making some and can't find much, they look like they'd be quite good protection for someone out of the heavy armours.

[Thom R.]

Instead of 6:1 here is another alternative if you wanted to do it yourself..... I just got these punched solid rings in the mail (pun intended ) two days ago and did a bit with them yesterday. This is a standard 4:1 weave with the solid rings and 18 gauge half hard wire. tough stuff for butted. good areal coverage with the solid rings. the rings are slightly dished for strength. I am happy with this for future do it myself mail. and would really work great with pre overlapped pre-drilled riveted rings of 9mm size (which I am trying to get a box of at the moment.) A shirt comprised of this would be awfully heavy, but for piece work, like mitten coverings, voiders, skirt, standard collar, aventail, this is definitely a decent option. just got them in and thought I'd share. tr

[Sander Marechal]

[Thom R.]

Honestly, I know some of you will argue with me, but imho I am not sure what the mail does for you in this context other than "look good" "look period". The main thing is to make gauntlets that can cushion the force of a blow and yet remain flexible so you still have good control of your weapon. If we were fighting with sharps, well sure you need mail. But for blunted weapons and wood, mail doesn't really do much to shed blows. If you want to distribute the force of a blow you need plates, finger bucklers, good padding. If anything I could make an argument that mail has disadvantages in this context (sparring, contact play) in that a glancing blow can catch on the mail whereas it would just glance off a simply padded glove. I have had that happen many times with my mail sleeves and I don't spar in mail hauberk as I see no reason to do that. A good quilted arming coat and some plate is lighter, better. But I know you are trying for a period look. sorry, as usual your mileage may vary. tr

as for the fingered mittens....... $tee1 M@$tery sells them (check their store on eb@y) but peoples experience with them tends to be, highly variable. i myself have had good experiences and never had a problem ordering from them, but it would appear many others have.

[Sander Marechal]

[Craig Shackleton]

I mentioned in another thread that my experience has been that mail disperses force over a wider area, and that this effect is significantly compounded with plate over mail. I suspect that mail over leather will have a similar effect, although my guess would be that it will be somewhat lesser. This will be balanced a bit by the slight cushioning of the leather, and of course you will have more flexibility and range of motion.

You'll also be ahead of me in that you are using six in one which should give greater dispersal and absorption of force on its own.

I'd love to hear back about your results when you are done!

Edit: As far as the shape goes, if you can make it look like these are integral mittens, I think that would be really cool. If it doesn't work though, it may just look a little goofy. My personal second choice would be to have the cuff of the glove over top of the sleeve, because if the sleeve is over the glove it creates a forward facing seam that swords can catch on or slip into.

[Greg Mele]