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Aaron Justice
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 Posted: Wed 16 Feb, 2005 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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I would love to see a brazil nut Squire Line sword, maybe a budget of the Gaddjhalt or Reeve, one to take the place of the Del Tin Maurice.
How can there be a perfect sword when PEOPLE come in all shapes and sizes too?
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Steve Grisetti
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| Posted: Wed 16 Feb, 2005 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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How about a Squire Line version of the Svante?? 
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Wed 16 Feb, 2005 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve Grisetti wrote: | | How about a Squire Line version of the Svante?? |
No way. Some swords should never be cheapened or compromised in any way, and that's one of them. 
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Alina Boyden
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| Posted: Wed 16 Feb, 2005 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Patrick Kelly wrote: | | Steve Grisetti wrote: | | How about a Squire Line version of the Svante?? |
No way. Some swords should never be cheapened or compromised in any way, and that's one of them. |
Unless cheapening just means decreasing the price. I'd be okay with that 
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Patrick J.
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| Posted: Thu 17 Feb, 2005 8:15 am Post subject: Squire Line Svante |
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| Steve Grisetti wrote: | | How about a Squire Line version of the Svante?? |
I second that. In fact I told Mike that the other week. He said it was up to Peter.
So, Peter...are you listening.
Of course it would be a new catagory, not being under $400. So Peter what about a stripped down Svante with a bad finish(going to get scratched anyway), dull edges, round tip, cheaper grip, etc... Just make sure it handles the same and has the same physical dimensions.
And Peter, I am on one knee begging....
Russ Ellis-want to join in on the campaign?
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Patrick J.
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| Posted: Thu 17 Feb, 2005 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| Patrick Kelly wrote: | | Steve Grisetti wrote: | | How about a Squire Line version of the Svante?? |
No way. Some swords should never be cheapened or compromised in any way, and that's one of them. |
I disagree. Ideally one should have two almost identical swords for training. A sharp one and a dull beater. Even more so with such a fantastic sword as the Svante. I would consider it a loss to buy a Svante, just to grind off the edges and use it as a beater. It would be better all around to design a Svante beater from the ground up. It would be ugly in comparison to the real Svante and therefore less problematic beating the crap out of the blade.
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 17 Feb, 2005 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| Patrick J. wrote: | | Patrick Kelly wrote: | | Steve Grisetti wrote: | | How about a Squire Line version of the Svante?? |
No way. Some swords should never be cheapened or compromised in any way, and that's one of them. |
I disagree. Ideally one should have two almost identical swords for training. A sharp one and a dull beater. Even more so with such a fantastic sword as the Svante. I would consider it a loss to buy a Svante, just to grind off the edges and use it as a beater. It would be better all around to design a Svante beater from the ground up. It would be ugly in comparison to the real Svante and therefore less problematic beating the crap out of the blade. |
Hi there,
I am sorry to say that a Squire Line version of the Svante is not possible. Several reasons for that.
Not all swords can be made into blunts or semi blunts without loosing what is critical for their performance in handling. Svante would be an especially bad candidate in that respect.
The Squire line will only include swords that are capable of having a thicker edge without loosing to much in handling.
Another critical issue is that the Squire Line swords have to be built with simple hilt components (=easy to finish) and not too complex blades.
I doubt it is possible to have a hollowground blade in the Squire Line, at least not a sword that is built to be comparable to a historical original down to a 10th of a milimeter. Perhaps a more generic peice, but there are some issues one need to be aware of.
There is a reason why you do not see many properly hollow ground swords in production industry: the price would leap to another level completely. It is not just the last finish or mounting, it is the overall complexity in grinding the blade and finishing the hilt components.
Perhaps some time later on when skills have been honed further and techniques have been refined we could see a hollow ground SqL sword, but that blade would have to be specifically designed to make allowance for thicker edges. It would have to have a sectional geometry that differs dramatically from a sharp sword to perform in handling like a sharp sword.
As to what other swords are to be included in the SqL we will have to see...
There are some as yet undecided plans, but they are still too preliminary to say anything definite yet.
I have made a number of concept drawings, but no one of these have been decided on. I will not spoil the fun by letting the cat out of the bag too early...:-)
As I see a large interest in using the Squire Line swords in sparring, I personally think it is a good idea to include some swords that are specially constructed for that purpose. The SqL line as it now stands are made up of general purpose entry level swords. They can abosutely be used for sparring, but a sword built from the ground up for that purpose is another matter completely. You could not it as a dress sword, nor would it be a good candidate to meet the visual satisfaction of a collection piece, but it would shine in sparring...
What I´d like to see is a historically accurate traning sword for the long sword techniques. A weapon as seen in many of the manuals.
When hoping for new models, do not expect SqL swords that demand too much in hilt complexity or blade grinding. That is what the Next generation Line is for.
SqL are more basic and general purpose. Good swords for that niche, but not comparable to the Next gen line when we enter the more sublte types and details.
Hope this helps clarify the idea behind the Squire Line some.
Thanks
Last edited by Peter Johnsson on Thu 17 Feb, 2005 9:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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Michael Sigman
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 17 Feb, 2005 9:23 am Post subject: |
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I hate to say this guys but don't count on a Svante in the Squire Line. I don't know where we would cut corners in order to do it and this is one piece that just should not have corners cut. It is way to beautiful of a piece to "cheapin" it.
Sorry to disappoint you guys.
Edit - Peter must have posted at the same time I did. :/
Mike Sigman
Albion Swords
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Patrick J.
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| Posted: Thu 17 Feb, 2005 9:56 am Post subject: |
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 I so wanted a beater that handles and behaves like the Svante. I must now break the news to Svante that he won't have a little brother to beat on. He will be so sad.
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Joe Fults
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| Posted: Thu 17 Feb, 2005 11:21 am Post subject: |
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Peter Said - "As I see a large interest in using the Squire Line swords in sparring, I personally think it is a good idea to include some swords that are specially constructed for that purpose. The SqL line as it now stands are made up of general purpose entry level swords. They can abosutely be used for sparring, but a sword built from the ground up for that purpose is another matter completely. You could not it as a dress sword, nor would it be a good candidate to meet the visual satisfaction of a collection piece, but it would shine in sparring...
What I´d like to see is a historically accurate traning sword for the long sword techniques. A weapon as seen in many of the manuals."
I think this is a much better direction to take the squires than to just trying to copy anything in the other product lines. In fact I think copying anything out of the other lines poses the very real risk of canabalizing the sales of higher margin products. For that reason alone, I would not go there if I was in Albion's shoes.
But then again, I'm not.
Regardless, I really look forward to seeing what the possible training tools end up being. I think steel "training tool/sparring tool" is an underserved market that Albion can do well in.
At least I hope so because it seems like there are very few good options out there.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 17 Feb, 2005 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Joe F said:
...I think this is a much better direction to take the squires than to just trying to copy anything in the other product lines. In fact I think copying anything out of the other lines poses the very real risk of canabalizing the sales of higher margin products. For that reason alone, I would not go there if I was in Albion's shoes.
That is very true: The Squire Line is *not* a cheap version of the Next Gen Line, even though the two lines share some basic principles for construction, heat treat and so on.
Next Gen swords are not going to be made into SqL models. Some blade blanks can be reused/tweaked for SqL use, but I do not think this is going to be the normal procedure.
Rather it can be a situation when some SqL models are elevated into NG status, being given a higher finish and the full blade treatment. This is not going to be common either, but it might happen some times.
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Roger Hooper
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| Posted: Thu 17 Feb, 2005 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Fults wrote: |
Regardless, I really look forward to seeing what the possible training tools end up being. I think steel "training tool/sparring tool" is an underserved market that Albion can do well in.
At least I hope so because it seems like there are very few good options out there. |
Right. In general, for sparring and stage combat, one must choose between crowbars or real swords that will get chewed up by the heavy demands made on them. The Squire Line looks like it may provide that sword that is tough enough and agile enough to satisfy people. So far, I've heard that those who have bought the XVa are very happy with it.
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Alina Boyden
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| Posted: Thu 17 Feb, 2005 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Aaron Justice wrote: | | I would love to see a brazil nut Squire Line sword, maybe a budget of the Gaddjhalt or Reeve, one to take the place of the Del Tin Maurice. |
Or an entirely new brazil nut design. Never enough brazil nuts...
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Steve Grisetti
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| Posted: Thu 17 Feb, 2005 3:41 pm Post subject: Svante Squire |
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I am awfully sorry, folks.  When I suggested a Squire Line version of the Svante, this was with tongue firmly planted in cheek. I would suspect that attempting to simplify the Svante in such a way would yield something that would not look like the Svante at all, except perhaps in the gross proportions, e.g., length of grip vs length of blade.
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Howard Waddell
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 18 Feb, 2005 4:36 am Post subject: |
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Peter has been working on a new line of swords spoecifically designed for sparring, which we will be introducing soon. The Squire line was really intended to be an "entry level" sword with traditional construction, suitable for reenactment but not really a sparring/training weapon.
These new swords will have around a 2mm blunt edge, will be attractive, functional (not suitable for sharpening, however) and built tough.
We are still discussing a name for this new line, but it will be priced around the Squire line pricing and will address some of the issues around sparring that the Squire line does not..
Best,
Howy
Albion Swords Ltd
http://albion-swords.com
http://filmswords.com
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Johan S. Moen
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| Posted: Fri 18 Feb, 2005 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| Howard Waddell wrote: | Peter has been working on a new line of swords spoecifically designed for sparring, which we will be introducing soon. The Squire line was really intended to be an "entry level" sword with traditional construction, suitable for reenactment but not really a sparring/training weapon.
These new swords will have around a 2mm blunt edge, will be attractive, functional (not suitable for sharpening, however) and built tough.
We are still discussing a name for this new line, but it will be priced around the Squire line pricing and will address some of the issues around sparring that the Squire line does not..
Best,
Howy |
Damn....eviiiiiil. This means I'll have to get at least 3 viking swords from you..one NextGen for cutting and admiring, one squire for reenactment and one of those new ones for sparring. 'tis gonna be killing me wallet.
But seriously, nice to hear! Good sparring swords don't seem to be that common.
Johan Schubert Moen
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Gary Grzybek
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| Posted: Fri 18 Feb, 2005 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| Howard Waddell wrote: | Peter has been working on a new line of swords spoecifically designed for sparring, which we will be introducing soon. The Squire line was really intended to be an "entry level" sword with traditional construction, suitable for reenactment but not really a sparring/training weapon.
These new swords will have around a 2mm blunt edge, will be attractive, functional (not suitable for sharpening, however) and built tough.
We are still discussing a name for this new line, but it will be priced around the Squire line pricing and will address some of the issues around sparring that the Squire line does not..
Best,
Howy |
Now we're talkin
This should be a real nice treat for the martial arts crowd. If the cost is comparable to the squire line, they will definately become a hot item 
Gary Grzybek
ARMA Northern N.J.
www.armastudy.org
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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom
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| Posted: Fri 18 Feb, 2005 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| Johan S. Moen wrote: | | Howard Waddell wrote: | Peter has been working on a new line of swords spoecifically designed for sparring, which we will be introducing soon. The Squire line was really intended to be an "entry level" sword with traditional construction, suitable for reenactment but not really a sparring/training weapon.
These new swords will have around a 2mm blunt edge, will be attractive, functional (not suitable for sharpening, however) and built tough.
We are still discussing a name for this new line, but it will be priced around the Squire line pricing and will address some of the issues around sparring that the Squire line does not..
Best,
Howy |
Damn....eviiiiiil. This means I'll have to get at least 3 viking swords from you..one NextGen for cutting and admiring, one squire for reenactment and one of those new ones for sparring. 'tis gonna be killing me wallet.
But seriously, nice to hear! Good sparring swords don't seem to be that common.
Johan Schubert Moen |
 Then it is not far away to a meadhall safety gestabud sword line
Frid o Fröjd!
Patrik
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Fri 18 Feb, 2005 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| Howard Waddell wrote: | We are still discussing a name for this new line, but it will be priced around the Squire line pricing and will address some of the issues around sparring that the Squire line does not..
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Wow, has this thread evolved from the Squire Line to something else... but what an outstanding thing to become!
I'm sure the obvious has already been considered, but my brain starts working and, well... it has to come out somewhere.
What about calling it the "Tournament" line? As we know, rebated or otherwise modified weapons of all sorts were commonly used...
As I know different periods and styles will be represented by this line, the names of these pieces could be pulled from terms for "tournament" or major tournament names of those respected periods...
For example, a Gladius could be called "Ludus Troiae" - "The Troy Game", or a Tournament Line version of the 2nd Gen Knight could be the "Mensa Rotunda" after the "Round Table Tournaments" where, supposedly, only rebated or blunt weapons were used. A 15th C version of King of the Hill called the "Pas d'Armes" in which an area was defended by one team from an assault by the other could also be represented by this line.
Just some random thoughts...
At any rate, whenever they come out, and whatever they happen to be called, put me down for a couple...
... or three...
... of each...
-Aaron
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David Kite
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| Posted: Sat 19 Feb, 2005 8:18 am Post subject: |
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When this line is eventually introduced, a Fechtbuch sword would be nice to see, like in Meyer. Maybe a long sword and a short sword.
David Kite
ARMA in IN
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