| myArmoury.com is now completely member-supported. Please contribute to our efforts with a donation. Your donations will go towards updating our site, modernizing it, and keeping it viable long-term.
Last 10 Donors: Daniel Sullivan, Anonymous, Chad Arnow, Jonathan Dean, M. Oroszlany, Sam Arwas, Barry C. Hutchins, Dan Kary, Oskar Gessler, Dave Tonge (View All Donors) |
| Author |
Message |
|
Patrick Kelly
|
 Posted: Tue 21 Sep, 2004 8:12 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Robert Zamoida wrote: | I like the idea of the "kit swords", but there have been some good points brought up about the negative side effects that can arise. Maybe a way to alleviate them would be to hold workshops at events like the Swordfest and Landfest showing how to properly and safely finish and assemble a sword, and then make the kits available only to those who have attended the workshops, along with an agreement not to sell them on eBay or anywhere else as an Albion product; or maybe if they wish to sell them they can be sold through Albion, in a manner similar to the way Eric, Jason and other Albion artisans sell their personal projects. Might be a good way to audition and train future potential employees, especially cutlers. I know, this is probably a stretch, but I figured I try  |
Not only are the liabilities still present with the above scenario, but it doesn't make for good business sense either. A business that has spent quite a bit of time and expense on developing a product would be foolish in the extreme to do what you suggest. Why give away their manufacturing process for the piddling cost of a kit-sword?
People need to face the fact that they simply can't eat their cake and have it too. If a customer wants an Albion sword they just need to pony up the cost, instead of asking the company to undercut their profit margin.
Besides, the folks up in Wisconsin are busy enough already. The last thing they need is *another* project to work on.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
|
|
   |
 |
Nate C.
|
| Posted: Tue 21 Sep, 2004 10:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well said Patrick. The folks at Albion are selling more than just steel. They are selling the time and expertise it takes to make that sword (whatever it is). As they have mentioned before the major cost of a sword is the time put into it, Not the materials.
Besides, I think if I were to build a sword, I would want to do as mush as possible on it (design, construction, etc.). I mean part of the goal of making your own sword is to have a unique piece of weaponry. So why not do everything?
Nate C.
Sapere Aude
"If you are going to kill the man, at least give him a decent salute." - A. Blansitt
If they ever come up with a Swashbuckling School, I think one of the courses should be Laughing, then Jumping Off Something. --Jack Handy
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joe Fults
|
| Posted: Wed 22 Sep, 2004 7:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
A slightly different angle on the Squireline thread.
I'm going to get to see one this weekend and I'm really looking forward to it because I need some training tools, as does the recently rapidly growing WMA group I'm part of. Out of idle curiosity, I'm wondering if Albion might ever consider making some Fechtbuch swords. Blunts are great and this question may end up being moot after I see the Squires or it might not.
Anyway, there are a few out there but not many, and those I have seen appear to be a bit pricy. Especially if you need more than one. They are something that I think many of us will someday need and good training tool sources seem difficult to identify. It would be nice to find another reputable avenue to secure them from.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
|
|
|
|
|
|
Howard Waddell
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Wed 22 Sep, 2004 10:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Joe Fults wrote: | A slightly different angle on the Squireline thread.
I'm going to get to see one this weekend and I'm really looking forward to it because I need some training tools, as does the recently rapidly growing WMA group I'm part of. Out of idle curiosity, I'm wondering if Albion might ever consider making some Fechtbuch swords. Blunts are great and this question may end up being moot after I see the Squires or it might not.
Anyway, there are a few out there but not many, and those I have seen appear to be a bit pricy. Especially if you need more than one. They are something that I think many of us will someday need and good training tool sources seem difficult to identify. It would be nice to find another reputable avenue to secure them from. |
Peter has already been toying with some designs both for the Squire Line and also one "training sword" design like those illustrated in some of the manuals. Peter could chime in here and provide more details, but the goal would be to provide an historical training sword (eventually a whole line up to and including the fencing sabres of the late 18th c) that is properly balanced, rugged and as inexpensive as we can make it.
Best,
Howy
Albion Swords Ltd
http://albion-swords.com
http://filmswords.com
|
|
 |
|
Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
|
| Posted: Wed 22 Sep, 2004 11:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Howard Waddell wrote: | Peter has already been toying with some designs both for the Squire Line and also one "training sword" design like those illustrated in some of the manuals. Peter could chime in here and provide more details, but the goal would be to provide an historical training sword (eventually a whole line up to and including the fencing sabres of the late 18th c) that is properly balanced, rugged and as inexpensive as we can make it.
Best,
Howy |
SWEET! Now that's what I'm talking about!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joe Fults
|
| Posted: Wed 22 Sep, 2004 11:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Bill Grandy wrote: | | Howard Waddell wrote: | Peter has already been toying with some designs both for the Squire Line and also one "training sword" design like those illustrated in some of the manuals. Peter could chime in here and provide more details, but the goal would be to provide an historical training sword (eventually a whole line up to and including the fencing sabres of the late 18th c) that is properly balanced, rugged and as inexpensive as we can make it.
Best,
Howy |
SWEET! Now that's what I'm talking about! |
Ditto here!!
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
|
|
|
|
|
|
Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Wed 22 Sep, 2004 12:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Historical training swords, yes...
Some time ago (it feels like ages ago) we had plans for a product line that would include both sharps and training swords of various types. This was more than a year before we started talking about the Next Generation line.
The most important sword among these trainers would of course be the long sword blunt as seen in 15th C and 16th C manuals.
I have made quite a few sketches of these swords.
To me, it would be the ideal sword for authenic period style sword training.
They can also be made to look rather nice and have an inherent sturdiness.
From my point of view it is just a metter of time and economy when this sword can be realized.
There are originals preserved that are in true two hander size, but I think it would be better to aim for long sword size (blade 90-93 cm long) at a weight somewhere around 1,4 kilos to mimic the handling and weight of the "typical" XVIIa or XVa longsword for the German or Italian longsword styles.
This, I think would be something to discuss in depth during the october visit to Albion...
After that we might be able to present some more detailed information ;-)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joe Fults
|
| Posted: Wed 22 Sep, 2004 8:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Peter, thanks for the reply.
Its another niche underserved IMO at the moment.
Perhaps I only think that because the local ARMA group is growing and I'm looking for training gear more than collecting gear now. But there seems to be quite a bit of unfilled demand for good training tools. There also seems to be quite a bit of dicsussion, but little agreement, about the quality of the tools that are available.
Some of the mass market vendors seem to making inroads in the space simply because they are hitting a low price point and people are willing to tear up their products just to have steel to work with. Even the Squire line makes some of the Fechtbuchs out there look a bit pricey.
Anyway I'd prefer to have a tool I feel I can rely on that handles correctly. I'd willingly accept a much reduced level of finish to fill the role and hit the price point, rather than going to a vendor I'm not sure I trust for something cheap. I'm also reluctant, at least right now, to pay as much for a tool as I would for a decent sword.
Especially since it will be something I expect to use up anyway.
Anyway, thanks and I look forward to seeing what the future holds.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
Last edited by Joe Fults on Mon 27 Sep, 2004 1:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joe Fults
|
| Posted: Sun 26 Sep, 2004 12:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Got to see and play with the Squire Line Viking yesterday.
I must say, at the price point, I am VERY impressed and expect that the study group I'm involved with will buy several of the Bastard Sword models over time. These will be excellent tools for entry level collectors, for solo drilling, and for theatrical work. However, if used as a sparring tool, great control and care will be required. I would definitely not want one swung at me with intent at this stage in my study.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
Last edited by Joe Fults on Mon 27 Sep, 2004 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joe Fults
|
| Posted: Mon 27 Sep, 2004 7:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
Must put a disclaimer on my reply.
I am very new to WMA and HAVE NOT done steel on steel work. I am currently not all that confident of my control and the control of the people I practice with. This may change in time with practice and application. It would be very useful to get feedback from people with a reasonable level of experience in this area.
FLIP side of things is that I do intend to call Mike and secure a Squire Line 15th Centuary Bastard sword based on my inspection of the Viking. So obviously I like this product.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
Last edited by Joe Fults on Mon 27 Sep, 2004 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joe Fults
|
| Posted: Mon 27 Sep, 2004 12:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
One last little post on this subject for now at least.
I put my order in for the 15th Century Bastard sword which I intend to use and abuse for solo drilling. Paid in full in advance, because I'm confident about the product for that use based on the Viking I was able to evaluate.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gary Grzybek
|
| Posted: Mon 27 Sep, 2004 1:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Joe Fults wrote: | One last little post on this subject for now at least.
I put my order in for the 15th Century Bastard sword which I intend to use and abuse for solo drilling. Paid in full in advance, because I'm confident about the product for that use based on the Viking I was able to evaluate. |
Hey Joe, of course this is no suprise since many of us placed down payments on our Next Gens before they were ever even made  Our expectations of these excellent products were based on a mere sketch although the outstanding reputation of the folks behind them really helped. It just seemed so right that there was never any doubt. I don't think that our good judgment would fail us now.
I'm mainly concerned about the thin edges and sharp tapers when it comes to martial arts training. I'd sure love to give one a test drive, especially that bastard sword
Gary Grzybek
ARMA Northern N.J.
www.armastudy.org
|
|
|
|
|
|
Howard Waddell
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Mon 27 Sep, 2004 2:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gary Grzybek wrote: | | Joe Fults wrote: | One last little post on this subject for now at least.
I put my order in for the 15th Century Bastard sword which I intend to use and abuse for solo drilling. Paid in full in advance, because I'm confident about the product for that use based on the Viking I was able to evaluate. |
Hey Joe, of course this is no suprise since many of us placed down payments on our Next Gens before they were ever even made Our expectations of these excellent products were based on a mere sketch although the outstanding reputation of the folks behind them really helped. It just seemed so right that there was never any doubt. I don't think that our good judgment would fail us now.
I'm mainly concerned about the thin edges and sharp tapers when it comes to martial arts training. I'd sure love to give one a test drive, especially that bastard sword |
As soon as we fill orders (right after the first wave of castings come in) we will make sure that you can test drive one, Gary. We'd appreciate your feedback as a practitioner.
Best,
Howy
Albion Swords Ltd
http://albion-swords.com
http://filmswords.com
|
|
|
|
|
Roger Hooper
|
| Posted: Mon 27 Sep, 2004 2:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gary Grzybek wrote: |
I'm mainly concerned about the thin edges and sharp tapers when it comes to martial arts training. I'd sure love to give one a test drive, especially that bastard sword |
Wouldn't it be possible to ask Albion to further rebate the edges of these swords (for an extra fee of course)? That sharp profile taper on the XVa does make me more interested in the XIIa.
Somewhere earlier in this thread, I remember Albion stating that for stage combat use, they are willing to further immobilize the furniture. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that.
Edit - I went looking for it - Here is a quote from Howie from page 2 of this thread, referring to guards loosening because of abuse-
The Squire Line, like the NextGen line, will constructed just like period originals and are guaranteed to take the same punishment as a period original.
However, "blade on blade" or stage combat is a very different thing. For a small additional fee, we could go beyond period construction and further secure the guard to avoid this possibility -- talk to Mike if that is something you would be interested in pursuing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gary Grzybek
|
| Posted: Mon 27 Sep, 2004 3:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Howard Waddell wrote: | | Gary Grzybek wrote: | | Joe Fults wrote: | One last little post on this subject for now at least.
I put my order in for the 15th Century Bastard sword which I intend to use and abuse for solo drilling. Paid in full in advance, because I'm confident about the product for that use based on the Viking I was able to evaluate. |
Hey Joe, of course this is no suprise since many of us placed down payments on our Next Gens before they were ever even made Our expectations of these excellent products were based on a mere sketch although the outstanding reputation of the folks behind them really helped. It just seemed so right that there was never any doubt. I don't think that our good judgment would fail us now.
I'm mainly concerned about the thin edges and sharp tapers when it comes to martial arts training. I'd sure love to give one a test drive, especially that bastard sword |
As soon as we fill orders (right after the first wave of castings come in) we will make sure that you can test drive one, Gary. We'd appreciate your feedback as a practitioner.
Best,
Howy |
Well Howy, it would be my absolute pleasure to give you the best performance review I can.
Gary Grzybek
ARMA Northern N.J.
www.armastudy.org
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joe Fults
|
| Posted: Mon 27 Sep, 2004 5:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Howard Waddell wrote: | | Gary Grzybek wrote: | | Joe Fults wrote: | One last little post on this subject for now at least.
I put my order in for the 15th Century Bastard sword which I intend to use and abuse for solo drilling. Paid in full in advance, because I'm confident about the product for that use based on the Viking I was able to evaluate. |
Hey Joe, of course this is no suprise since many of us placed down payments on our Next Gens before they were ever even made Our expectations of these excellent products were based on a mere sketch although the outstanding reputation of the folks behind them really helped. It just seemed so right that there was never any doubt. I don't think that our good judgment would fail us now.
I'm mainly concerned about the thin edges and sharp tapers when it comes to martial arts training. I'd sure love to give one a test drive, especially that bastard sword |
As soon as we fill orders (right after the first wave of castings come in) we will make sure that you can test drive one, Gary. We'd appreciate your feedback as a practitioner.
Best,
Howy |
Howard,
This is an excellent idea and a generous gesture.
I hope you are able to get feedback from some other practitioners who actually have knowledge and experience. Two qualities I lack. That way I'm not the only person bugging Mike with half baked ideas and you guys will get some legitimately fully baked feedback.
Kudos!
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
|
|
|
|
|
|
Alina Boyden
|
| Posted: Mon 27 Sep, 2004 11:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
I hope this hasn't been asked and answered but I don't think I saw it in this thread. I've heard you guys talking about possibly allowing pommel and guard options on the next gen swords at some point in time. Would you also extend that option to the squire line swords as well?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Howard Waddell
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Tue 28 Sep, 2004 7:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Alina Boyden wrote: | | I hope this hasn't been asked and answered but I don't think I saw it in this thread. I've heard you guys talking about possibly allowing pommel and guard options on the next gen swords at some point in time. Would you also extend that option to the squire line swords as well? |
Hi Alina!
I don't think that we will ever do a mix and match of hilt components -- there is too much involved with Peter's designs to play with switching components around. However, we are always open to suggestions for the types of hilt you would like to see on a particular type of blade -- Peter is working on alternate hilt components for several of the blades already designed, so that they are designed from the ground up, so to speak, and a true to their historical counterparts in handling and performance, as well as aesthetics. So keep suggestions coming!
Best.
Howy
Albion Swords Ltd
http://albion-swords.com
http://filmswords.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
Steve Fabert
|
| Posted: Tue 28 Sep, 2004 8:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
While you are inviting suggestions, let me remind you of the Shrewsbury sword aka Del Tin 5144, which would make a very elegant addition to the Next Gen line.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Alina Boyden
|
| Posted: Tue 28 Sep, 2004 9:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Howard Waddell wrote: |
Hi Alina!
I don't think that we will ever do a mix and match of hilt components -- there is too much involved with Peter's designs to play with switching components around. However, we are always open to suggestions for the types of hilt you would like to see on a particular type of blade -- Peter is working on alternate hilt components for several of the blades already designed, so that they are designed from the ground up, so to speak, and a true to their historical counterparts in handling and performance, as well as aesthetics. So keep suggestions coming!
Best.
Howy |
Ah alternate hilt components, perhaps that's what I heard you guys talking about. Well, since you asked, I'd like to see a type XII with a brazil nut pommel (Oakeshott type A) and maybe an Oakeshott type 6 crossguard.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
All contents © Copyright 2003-2024 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum
|
This is a standard topic