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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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 Posted: Mon 25 Jan, 2010 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Tom King wrote: | | Hanwei's steel is chinese where as windlass uses indian steel, which is generally known to be crap. Go for the Hamwei out of the two. |
I disagree that "Indian steel" is generally known to be crap. (What is "Indian steel" anyway? Steel made in India?)
We want to try to avoid these wide-sweeping generalizations here on myArmoury.com and instead present informed opinions and context to go with them in our discussions.
As a point of fact, there are products coming out of India that are quite good and other products that are lacking in many areas. There are no simple generalized statements to be made. Please avoid it in the future.
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Tom King
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| Posted: Mon 25 Jan, 2010 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Its not so much that the steel is from India but that Windlass is using a lower quality carbon steel that happens to be from India. Then again I am biased due to bad experiences with the quality of the Windlass product line.
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Lin Robinson
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| Posted: Mon 25 Jan, 2010 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Tom King wrote: | | Lin Robinson wrote: | | I would go with the Hanwei, but I must disagree with the description of Windlass blades as "crap". They are adequate blades for the price point. |
Some Windlass blades are decent, but there are a lot of better swords in the same price range. The Hanwei Tinkers come to mind. Also Atlanta cutlery sells some cheap dirk blanks. 12in long with a round tang, and its only 16.95 www.atlantacutlery.com |
I cannot tell if you are being critical of the AC dirk blades (they aren't blanks) or just commenting on them. As you probably know, they are made by Windlass. I have used dozens of them to make inexpensive dirks and nobody has ever complained. Again, this is not a custom forged blade, but for the price they are OK.
Lin Robinson
"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Tom King
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| Posted: Mon 25 Jan, 2010 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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The sad thing is that the dirk blade is the same one off thier production dirk. 60 bucks gone for the hilt and floral pattern. With windlass, if the quality matches the price (which it rarely does) they're ok blades. This is one of those rare instances. and for another 20 bucks you could even scrap a stainless dirk for the sheath and fittings and save about $40
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Henrik Bjoern Boegh
Location: Agder, Norway Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 386
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| Posted: Tue 26 Jan, 2010 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| GG Osborne wrote: | Here's a thought for you. Forget the elaborately carved "traditional" dirk grip and make one that was probably much more prevalent in daily use. Anyone with a wood lathe and a nice block of oak could make one of these puppies up for you in 20 minutes or so and a little filing and finishing on your part could make a nice grip. Get some sheet brass or better iron for a pommel cap and buy a blade from Track of the Wolf or any other dagger you want to modify. You will wind up with something very authentic, the right size and good looking.
I am attaching apicture of what I mean. These two dirks are made by Norman C Milne in Edinburgh and the one on the right is, I think very nice for this sort of dirk. I am attaching the picture as illustration as you have already stated that these are outside your price range. I give all credit to Mr. Milne.
Please don't buy the Hanwai dirk. It is fricking huge and there is absolutely nothing, nothing authentic about it at all except the rough idea that some early dirks were triangular in shape. If your heart is set on one <sigh> I may even have one in my junk box I'll give you for the price of postage and handleing. |
Milne does simple stuff that is allright and some stuff that is LOVELY!!! I've been to his shop and chatted with him a couple of times. Nice chap.
Not all dirks were nicely carved. The nicely carved ones were made by craftsmen [ that are referred to as Dirkmakers (or Durkmakers) in sources that Whitelaw quoted in his book on Scottish Arms Makers] and expensive. The ones you see in museums are allways the top notch ones.
Alex, PM me your e-mail adress and I'll send you a little illustration with the basic interlace knots running around the handle if you want to have a go at carving one. It's very enjoyable!
Cheers,
Henrik
Constant and true.
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Jack W. Englund
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| Posted: Tue 26 Jan, 2010 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| Jimmy Reinstatler wrote: | You could try Middlesex Village Trading company. Their Scottish pistols go for $325.
http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/ScottishPistols.shtml
The only thing is, they have the vent hole drilled. I suppose you could contact them and see if they would be willing to sell you one sans hole? |
I own a brace of these.
Yes they will ship "untapped (although mine are.
BTW, IMHO MVT has the best.
Jack
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GG Osborne
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| Posted: Tue 26 Jan, 2010 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Here are some tips for making the commonly found Murdich pistol a bit moreauthentic although nothing is going to compensate for the fact that they are too large in general!):
1: Using a Dremel tool or a good bench drill press, drill out the ramshorn scroll work on the butt until the thickness of the metal is about 1/3 - 1/4 of the original.
2: Using a MAAP torch, heat the scroll work to cherry red and then use a pair of needle-nose plyers to turn the scroll into a much tighter curl. This will discolor the metal but fine steel wool solves this problem in about 10 minutes. The brass inlay may come off if it has been glued tather than silver soldered. If it does, just epoxy it back later. Sand the brass plate until it is about 1/4 as thick and taper the edges to a nice oval rather than the sharp edges made by the factory.
3. Order a cock set (top jaw plate, screw, and cock) from The Rifle Shoppe (www.therifleshop.com) for their Scottish pistol kit. (Which, by the way no one here has discussed yet...my oversight!) These are much, much more authentic and look great. They also fit the Murdoch very nicely.
4. Ditto above but order the vent pick and trigger as well. Replace the Murdoch pieces.
Anything from TRS is going to come as a rough casting, but various grades of sanding pads and maybe a grinder (Dremel tool) to remove the casting sprue will fix this is short order. Alsoi invest in a set of needle files which can be had at Home Depot for < $10.00.
When you are finished, cold blue the pistol after throughly cleaning off all the oil with alcohol or some other good solvent as most steel pistols were either blued, browned, etc. to control corrosion,
You will really be suprised how much these simple steps with a little sweat equity makes a big difference.
"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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GG Osborne
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| Posted: Tue 26 Jan, 2010 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Here is a picture of two completed TRS pistols. The kits do not come engraved. The engraving you see here was addred later by the owner.
 Attachment: 151.55 KB
"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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Lin Robinson
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| Posted: Tue 26 Jan, 2010 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| GG Osborne wrote: |
3. Order a cock set (top jaw plate, screw, and cock) from The Rifle Shoppe (www.therifleshop.com) for their Scottish pistol kit. (Which, by the way no one here has discussed yet...my oversight!) These are much, much more authentic and look great. They also fit the Murdoch very nicely.
4. Ditto above but order the vent pick and trigger as well. Replace the Murdoch pieces.
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Glenn...
Are the trigger and vent pick drop in items or will the hole for the vent pick have to be retapped?
Great suggestions. Wish I was energetic enought to do them all. Your post did send me running to my Rifle Shoppe catalog.
Lin Robinson
"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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GG Osborne
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| Posted: Tue 26 Jan, 2010 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Not drop-in, Lin, but easily doable with a file and/or grinder. I had to retap the vent pick hole which took all of about 2 minutes.
"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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Lin Robinson
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| Posted: Wed 27 Jan, 2010 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Glenn...
Thanks for the tips. I had contemplated making a new trigger for mine, but your other ideas are excellent.
Lin Robinson
"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Henrik Bjoern Boegh
Location: Agder, Norway Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 386
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Lin Robinson
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| Posted: Thu 28 Jan, 2010 4:51 am Post subject: |
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Henrik...
If you have the skills, then The Rifle Shoppe pistol would definitely be the way to go. There are companies which will assemble TRS kits for a fee. I saw one on the Internet the other day which offered to do one for $300 which, when added to the cost of the components, gets pretty expensive. However, the finished prodcut would be worth it.
I mentioned the Coach Harness version in an earlier message. I have looked for one of those for years, in vain. I do not think they made more than a handful of them. Ironically my best friend, who is pretty good at that sort of thing, got one of their kits, when they were available, and built it. He told me - and this is a guy with a degree from the Pratt Institute who has built several long rifles and understands this sort of thing - that this was the hardest thing he had done to date as far as building a firearm. The parts, like those from TRS - were rough cast, and required a lot of finishing. I believe he had to harden the frizzen as well - this was nearly 30 years ago so I cannot be sure. He did say that the springs in the lock were excellent. I have fired his pistol, which was quite an experience! I will post a photo of his gun, as soon as I can re-size it to fit the requirments of the site.
Lin Robinson
"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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GG Osborne
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| Posted: Thu 28 Jan, 2010 11:49 am Post subject: |
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I have to echo what Henrik and Lin have said. The first thing anyone wants to do with an Indian made Murdoch is disassemble the pistol and clean it throughly with hot soapy water, dry and re-lubricate it. Let's just say quality control is not a strong point!
Also, I have heard nothing buy horror stories from anyone who tried to assemble a Coach Harness pistol. Think the most complicated Christmas toy to assemble on Christmas Eve, lose several key parts, and have several components that don't fit right and you get some idea of the problem. I once held a very, very early Coach Harness Long Land Pattern musket (this is back in the late '60s) and it was like holding a railroad rail with a stock! It must have weighed in at 18-20 lbs at minimum. That musket is in your backyard, Lin owned by a friend of mine in Kannapolis, NC !
I know of at least one Coach Harness kit still unassembled and one already finished and am inquiring about availability.
"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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Keith L. Rogers
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| Posted: Thu 28 Jan, 2010 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Wanted to check out the kit GG Osborne mentioned. I discoverd the URL in the post goes to the wrong place. Googling shows the correct one is http://www.therifleshoppe.com/.
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Lin Robinson
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| Posted: Thu 28 Jan, 2010 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a photo of my friend's Coach Harness pistol. I can assure you that the photo does not do it justice. He is an excellent craftsman with the skills and knowledge to do something like this. However, it nearly whipped him!
I have only seen one other finished Coach Harness pistol and that was being carried by an elderly gent at the Stone Mountain Highland Games about five years ago. He was all dressed up for a formal banquet and was packing the pistol and a huge powder horn.
Attachment: 129.29 KB
Lin Robinson
"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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David Wilson
Location: In a van down by the river Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 802
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| Posted: Thu 28 Jan, 2010 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Whoa, good find, Henrik. The disclaimer at Middlesex states that they'd never seen a "real" Scots pistol that wasn't profusely engraved (there are certainly some doglock pistols that lack engraving). In the new Fergus Canan (sp?) book Scottish Arms and Armour, there is a very similar flintlock pistol, with some minor differences -- the trigger and pricker heads are acorn-shaped and faceted, and the barrel is engraved. It has no maker's mark of any kind. Otherwise it is almost identical to the "Indian" and this pistol illustrated here. (No, I don't have pics)
I doubt that this one, and the one in the Canan book, are actually Scots, most likely mass-produced in Birmingham or other English gun-making center....
I actually have two of these attractive toys, one plain and the other engraved (although, not in a pattern that resembles anything the Scots would have done....). I've always been suspect as to quality -- they are fairly rough, and the fact that there are no proof marks has always given me pause. Needless to say, I don't plan on live-firing them (maybe "blank" charges, no ball...).
David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe
Now available on Amazon: Franklin Posner's "Suburban Vampire: A Tale of the Human Condition -- With Vampires" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072N7Y591
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A. Spanjer
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| Posted: Thu 28 Jan, 2010 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| David Wilson wrote: | | I actually have two of these attractive toys, one plain and the other engraved (although, not in a pattern that resembles anything the Scots would have done....). I've always been suspect as to quality -- they are fairly rough, and the fact that there are no proof marks has always given me pause. Needless to say, I don't plan on live-firing them (maybe "blank" charges, no ball...). |
Be careful with blanks. They can be just as dangerous as a musket ball at close range. 
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Lin Robinson
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| Posted: Thu 28 Jan, 2010 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| David Wilson wrote: | Whoa, good find, Henrik. The disclaimer at Middlesex states that they'd never seen a "real" Scots pistol that wasn't profusely engraved (there are certainly some doglock pistols that lack engraving). In the new Fergus Canan (sp?) book Scottish Arms and Armour, there is a very similar flintlock pistol, with some minor differences -- the trigger and pricker heads are acorn-shaped and faceted, and the barrel is engraved. It has no maker's mark of any kind. Otherwise it is almost identical to the "Indian" and this pistol illustrated here. (No, I don't have pics)
I doubt that this one, and the one in the Canan book, are actually Scots, most likely mass-produced in Birmingham or other English gun-making center....
I actually have two of these attractive toys, one plain and the other engraved (although, not in a pattern that resembles anything the Scots would have done....). I've always been suspect as to quality -- they are fairly rough, and the fact that there are no proof marks has always given me pause. Needless to say, I don't plan on live-firing them (maybe "blank" charges, no ball...). |
If you look at the photos from the album and compare it to the pistol in the Canan book, one thing stands out to me. The lock on the gun in the Canan book is a Highland lock. The one in the photos that Henrik pointed out, does not seem to be. I would like to look into where that supposedly antique pistol came from. There were versions of this pistol which were made in England prior to the Indian companies producing them.
Lin Robinson
"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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John Waller
Location: UK Joined: 11 Dec 2009
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Fri 29 Jan, 2010 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| Lin Robinson wrote: | Here is a photo of my friend's Coach Harness pistol. I can assure you that the photo does not do it justice. He is an excellent craftsman with the skills and knowledge to do something like this. However, it nearly whipped him!
I have only seen one other finished Coach Harness pistol and that was being carried by an elderly gent at the Stone Mountain Highland Games about five years ago. He was all dressed up for a formal banquet and was packing the pistol and a huge powder horn. |
I bought one of these in kit form about 20 years ago after reading that it just required basic skills to put it together. I'm afraid the 'basic' skills were beyond mine. The kit was for a non-firer as a large section on the underside of the barrel had been cut away. I gave it to a friend who is a helicopter engineer who said he could build it for me. Never seen it since! Must find out what happened to it.
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