[Thom R.]

I am not sure I agree with you Mr Edelson. (although your post may be sarcasm, always hard to tell in this medium).

Personally, I believe that the practice of martial arts, even if using anachronistic weaponry (swords), is not only still highly relevant for today's society, but having a martial art discipline/practice, may actually be more important than ever.............. not strictly from the perspective of self defense...... but rather in the development of oneself as a disciplined, emotionally and physically healthy individual.

However I do realize that many, maybe a majority of folks, who buy anachronistic weapons, or who visit here regularly, do it more from a perspective of appreciation of the historic and artistic value of ancient weaponry. and that perspective has value as well and imho is a very natural instinct (to understand our collective history, including military/martial history). I don't know that I agree with the statement about "instinctual misfiring". tr

[Quinn W.]

Many people yearn on some level to be that knight-in-shining-armor, the defender of justice et.al.
Most follow through in a more directly relevant sense, such as holding doors open for others, or even just trying to live one's life with honesty and integrity. I try to do these things as well to the best of my ability, but taking it up a step and meeting that description on a more literal level personally helps me integrate that philosophy into who I am as a person. Chivalry is not dead until we let it die, and I for one do not aim to allow that to happen. I am a human being with my own faults and flaws, but I try, and if I can be reminded of my endeavor by occasionally putting on 70 lbs of metal, I'll do it.

Additionally, a point that several have already mentioned but one I'll reiterate once more, is that we (or at least a few of us) are artists and historians, and to be able to see and feel a piece of history (or more likely a reproduction of one, but I think it still holds true) gives us a better understanding of the subject of our fascination. True, we can never know exactly what it was like to be a warrior back then, but I'm sure someone who has wielded a sword is at least that much closer to knowing than someone who hasn't.

[Maurizio D'Angelo]

I am amazed of your passion, I am speaking of Americans.
It almost seems that you Europeans.
I say this not sarcastically, I really think that is extraordinary.
Feel your historical roots even after hundreds of years.
Ciao
Maurizio

[J.D. Crawford]

[Taylor Ellis]

My collecting interest is entirely related to phallic symbolism.

[Anders Backlund]

[Thom R.]

One more thing which gets back to one of Zach's original questions ..........

I think people did re-enact "600 years ago". I think people have always "re-enacted" their collective history. I think it is very natural, and a cultural self-preservation instinct. We have plenty of evidence for this (ever heard the song "ring around the rosy"/?/). afterall, most established religion "re-enacts" various historical events annually (e.g. Easter). Only someone with a very narrow viewpoint about what re-enactment consists of would say that re-enactment is a modern phenomenon.

In my case, with roots in the gaelic speaking culture, history was maintained via an oral tradition rather than written. This is a very common thread in many cultures. I think living history is a very healthy thing for a culture to engage in. Having said that, it is also important to maintain a tradition of scholarly academic research into the past, so that misconceptions and misunderstandings about the past don't develop into "false accepted truths", and that is one of the great things about a forum like this..... to promote both (living history and academic research) together. TR

[David Lohnes]

I can't say anything for others.
And I don't actually own any reproductions.

But I do feel like there is a very important place in our culture for living history and reproductions, maybe even a crucial place.

An important fact to keep in mind is that we're living in essentially a brand new epoch in human history. The technological advances in the last two hundred years have been utterly unprecedented, and as the technology has changed, WE have changed.

Our ancestors of the early late 18th and early 19th centuries lived a mode of life that was far more similar to that of the ancient Romans than it was to our own. By and large they relied on technologies, tools, and skills that were very similar to tools and methods hundreds and even thousands of years old. By contrast, the DSL-enabled, Internet connected iMac I use every day is utterly unlike anything that existed when I was born a mere 31 years ago. My own six-year-old son cannot remember a world without the Internet, text messaging, online banking, Wikipedia, DVDs, eBay, and the Xbox 360.

When I was a boy, I played Super Mario Bros. on the NES, dialed memorized phone numbers by hand, learned to type on a typewriter, and looked up books at the library in a card catalog. In a mere quarter century, my boyhood has ceased to exist. It is literally impossible for my own son to know what it was like for me to be a boy. And while I mourn the passing of the classic NES and the plain vanilla touch-tone ATT handset for my own nostalgic reasons, these things were themselves short-lived products of technology unknown to my own father in his boyhood.

Much more troubling, even sinister, than the passing of these relics of my childhood is the loss of the skills and technologies of the pre-industrial era. Those were necessary skills that had been passed from generation to generation for centuries; and they had been honed and refined in the process. The hand plow, the spinning wheel, the sextant, the axe, the saddle--these essential devices were the fruits of humanity's best minds working through thousands of years of time.

And what's more, if the power goes out, they're all still the best way to do their jobs.

It took humankind millennia to learn how to accurately calculate latitude and longitude on the basis of celestial navigation. And the knowledge has literally disappeared in three generations. Who among the rising generation can even identify Rigel, Procyon, or Aldebaran, much less calculate direction or location by looking at them? Who among the rising generation has even touched a sheep, much less shorn one and used its wool to make thread, and cloth, and clothes? Who among the rising generation knows how to hone the edge of a felling axe, or clean and butcher an animal and smoke or salt its flesh? Who has held a grain of raw wheat, and knows what ground it thrives best in, and what weather? Who knows how to till the ground, when to plant, and when to harvest? Who knows how to thresh the grain, how to grind it, and how to knead and bake it into bread?

This knowledge is the knowledge of the ages, and we've lost it--squandered it on URLs and playlists and the technical specifications of gadgets that will be forgotten in less than a decade.

None of us guarantee that the power will always be on for our children and grandchildren. Katrina may strike us or our descendants. And if it should, what will be left to distinguish us from animals or cave men?

When Caesar invaded Britain in 55 BC, he found a vigorous and warlike people, but four centuries of occupation, civilization, and Roman protection softened them. When the Romans finally left in the 5th century AD, the Britons were quickly swallowed up by barbarian tribes that had not known Rome's "effeminizing" (as Caesar puts it) influence.

Reliance on technology saps the fiber of a people and leaves them unable to maintain themselves when that prop is withdrawn.

A wise people, therefore, will enjoy the fruits of technology without forgetting how to live without technology. Obviously it's not practicable for everyone in society to maintain an entire pre-industrial skill set and also an industrial skill set. What is practicable and necessary is for willing people throughout a technological society to be intentional about preserving and passing on pre-industrial (a.k.a. non-electrical) skills so that they aren't lost.

That's why I'm here.

I'm willing, and able, and I enjoy it.

I killed my first deer last month, watched my friends clean it (and helped a little), and then butchered it, wrapped it, and packed it in the freezer myself. Last year my boys and I began to learn the names of the stars (I recommend the freeware Stellarium). Now a year has passed, and once I again I see Sirius glimmer and flash like a police car's light, and I feel like I'm seeing an old friend. Two years ago I bought a real axe (not a made-in-China, plastic-handled piece of blunt metal shaped like an axe), learned how to sharpen it, and began felling and bucking trees as a form of exercise. I'm learning how to shave with a straight razor (nicked myself a good one this morning), hone blades of all sorts, build a good fire from scratch, and recognize trees on sight. It's an "oak," "maple," or "tulip poplar" now, not just a "tree." My wife grinds wheat in a mill and makes bread from her own flour. Next month I'll be butchering chickens with a buddy of mine. Neither of us have ever killed a chicken before.

I'm a city-bred, overweight gamer nerd by nature, and if the power went out, I'd probably be the first to die. Or, at least, that's how it would have been. Now I'd probably be the second. I'd like to continue better my odds. For my sake, my family's sake, and for the sake of those descendants of mine who may never know my name but may still know something of pre-industrial life.

There is a place for informed knowledge of swords, swordsmanship, and smithcraft in my world.

So if you're feeling guilty about mortgaging your house to buy useless swords, try to see the big picture. For some city-bred, overweight gamer nerds, owning a sword is probably just another way to try to get inside the game.

But for others, it can be a way out of the game.

Balance is the key. Study swords, but also flints and fires, spinning wheels, and phases of the moon.

Our feeble, techno-blind society needs people like you.

My two cents,

David

[Michael Edelson]

David,

I really enjoyed reading your post, and I admire your point of view.

However, the sad reality is that when the lights go out, the people who learn to use the M4 carbine will be the ones benefiting from the people who learn the plow, axe and shovel.

Not even the worst disaster imaginable can erase modern weapons from the world, so while there is a very valuable place for the skills you discuss, the sword will always, in our lifetime and that of our children's children, be a curioius relic of a bygone age.

[M. Eversberg II]

Ich will.

M.

[Taylor Ellis]

That was a fantastic post David.

[Harry J. Fletcher]

I can answer this for myself. After reading an article in a magizine about using a sword for self defense I engaged in some deep thought and arrived at the conclusion that it would make a great backup weapon. However, I must admit being already interested in ancient hand combat weapons and to watching programs that dealt with their usage in some detail so maybe that had some influence too.

A sword makes an excellent defense tool which the cops would never think of confiscating like they did firearms in New Orleans (at least not yet anyway), doesn't cost much to learn to cut with in the backyard and is really fun. Coupled with my interest in history and weapons it was a good fit with my studies. One sword purchase led to another I guess because looking for the proverbial "just right sword" which always seemed to be just one purchase away led to another purchase.

So here I am with four Katanas, four medeivals, one ancient Greek, and one modernized Celtic later not to mention a beater katana (and I mean just that). My wife asks me are we protected now?

I already had books on ancient warfare as well as medeival warfare, which I had read so I accumulated more to augment my knowledge. This is an activity which gives me pleasure and so I pursue it. It helps to bring history back to life when I use and hold a sword, improves my knowledge, and keeps me interested in life. Can I ask more? As for Michael and Patrick their reasons are right too.

Just be thankful we live in a country where we are not compelled to justify ourselves to anyone.

[Colt Reeves]

I just want to say I enjoyed your post and viewpoint as well, David. I check in on this site now and again, but haven't done anything in a while (not that I ever built up a large number of posts anyway) because I had forgotten my password and my new laptop of course doesn't know it either. How's that for an example of reliance on technology? Anyway, your post inspired me to get a new one.

To comment on some points in your post:
I think anyone who has even the slightest interest in history or knowledge at least has sometimes stopped and thought about how much the world has changed in their lifetime, let alone those of their parents or grandparents. I may be young, but I still remember seeing my first computer, a clunky affair that would be put to shame by your average calculator today (I'm fibbing a bit, but any cellphone or palm pilot would outdo it in any contest you'd care to name). I was suprised when I bought a computer a couple of years ago and it didn't have a floppy drive... etc, etc. And that's just a couple of things about computers.

[David Lohnes]

[Bruno Giordan]

[Michael Edelson]

David,

Another excellent post! This time I'm in complete agreement. The sword as a gateway drug to escape the game...I like it. I never looked at it that way.

[Kirk Lee Spencer]

Hey all...

Great thread...

I thought of sharing this image earlier. After David's excellent posts I think it even more appropriate.

I have always like the words of Hilda Ellis Davidson as she ended here landmark work "The Sword in Anglo-Saxon England."

ks

[Harry J. Fletcher]

David's post was enlightening for many of us but in different ways. For many of you in the younger set have not had the experiences which developed some of the skills mentioned by David. For me camping, gathering wood, lighting fires, fishing, and mountain hiking were done without benefit of hitech equipment. For example fishing was done with just a a pole cut from a tree, some string, homemade hook, a cork for a bobber and a worm for bait.

Most of my generation and the previous generations were conditioned by the Boy Scouts and then the military taught us the use of firearms if we didn't already know how to use them. America was more rural then, no hitech devices to keep kids entertained, and parents wanted kids outside playing with other kids. We didn't have the benefit of organized sports so we played impromtu baseball games, bicycle races, pushcart races etc. It was rough and tumble and we took our lumps but I think we were somehow tougher for it.

I learned how to handle a machete in Viet Nam in 1966 and have always used one to chop up cut down tree branches into bundles after trimming my trees. I began to hike and backpack again several years later and still enjoy the outdoors. I learned about caring for horses, how to ride one, saddle one, and how to train one. I have several firearms and reload for them.

After watching a PBS series, 1900 HOUSE, my wife and I decorated out home with oil lamps and have stocks of lamp oil which have come in handy during power outages. After several attempts over the years I finally mastered the fine art of using a straight razor, a sharpening stone, and strop. I will say that in the process my face looked like hamburger several times...oh well! My wife and I learned how to bake bread, make soap, and save virturally anything reusable such as bottles, jars, animal fat etc. Being of the older generation I grew up with the clothesline and installed one in the backyard of the last house we bought since it didn't have one.

The saddest thing about the current generation is their attitude toward a material object. They just use it and throw it away instead of taking care of it, repairing it, and keeping it for continual usage whether it is a car, a shovel, lawnmower, or whatever. They are imbued with the idea of built in obsolesence. Throw it away and buy another one of more current manufacture. Also, they want to be entertained instead of finding ways to entertain themselves by using their imagination. To use a computer we have to conform to its logic and become almost like robots with no latitude for expression or deviation.

Perhaps this is why we seek refuge in the past and the objects of the past, to have and hold something with continuity which reminds us of our humaness. A sword is the tool of a man

[Sean Flynt]

One possibility I don't think anybody else mentioned (forgive me if this is redundant): Humans evolved to live in ways that few of us actually live in the industrialized world. Desk jobs, computers, abundant food, climate control, leisure time, etc. is probably pretty foreign to our brains and bodies. But being outside, running in short bursts, making and using tools, solving physical problems, protecting ourselves, families and communities from predators, etc. really is our nature, obscured by a modern façade. Wanting the latest iPhone is probably the same impulse as wanting an improved spear or other technology. Maybe we're simply tapping into an ancient impulse better than most people, obsessing about the kinds of technology and challenges we evolved to obsess about.

Sociobiology is controversial, but it's taken seriously by serious folks, most notably my fellow Alabamian, E.O. Wilson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociobiology

[Michael S. Rivet]

This discussion seems to have addressed the question "Why do we collect?" in mostly broad, anthropological terms. If I may be permitted, I'd like to make it a little more personal.

I collect Medieval arms (not armor so far) as a part of my battle with chronic Depression. It is a symbol, part of whose power is in the simple fact that I don't need it. That these things exist in my life for no other reason than that I want them and they give me a sparkle of amusement. They remind me that not everything in my life need be evaluated by its contribution to my base survival.

The sword, in particular, also carries with it the ghost of romantic chivalry. The notion (if only in my own mind) that a good man, properly equipped, can and should stand against that which is not right in his life, his community, his world. A sort of "courage made tangible." I know there have been whole years of my life in which the will to keep plodding away has been bolstered by a new custom purchase I was designing or waiting for. And brief moments when the weight of a sword in my hand reminded me that a knight fighting for a righteous cause is not free to surrender, even if the battlefield be within his own skull.

I know that collecting is equally personal to other forum members and guests, from brief comments that I've marked as they went by, and equally difficult to express in words. While there may be a truth of sorts in the notion that humans collect as an adaptation of survival characteristics whose original purpose is long forgotten, such broad sweeping notions can only ever be a piece of the truth.

Just a reminder.