[Witek Chmielewski]

Hi everyone, I stumbled across this set of illustrations tonight and was wondering if anyone was familiar with them. I've assumed they're of pairs of entrants in the Rennen, and there are others that seem to be equipped in harness that is intended for the more usual jousting. In my opinion these images demonstrate a very high quality in terms of both line and colour, and they might be a source of inspiration to some. Some of the crests are simply lovely.

http://bibliodyssey.blogspot.com/2009/04/burg...-book.html

As the following page says, these are from a book that is a copy of the original, unless I'm mistaken.

http://mdzx.bib-bvb.de/codicon/Band_bsb00015125.html

I wonder if any German speaker could have a look at the text on the actual book. My understanding of German is usually ok, but the gothic-style font of the book is hurting my tiny brain. There's also some annotations scattered around if you look at the illustrations close up.

http://mdzx.bib-bvb.de/codicon/Blatt_bsb00015125,00009.html

First of all, I'm intrigued by the 'Grandpa' pair that have fabric draped over their legs and saddle. Can anyone shed any light on this? I'm not sure what the intended purpose for that kind of covering is. Here's the link -

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bibliodyssey/3417198003/sizes/o/

I was also wondering if anyone could shed any light on the horse barding displayed in this book.

In some cases I'd say we're looking at horse bards that seem to include plate armour, which then appears to have been painted? Or perhaps simply covered with fabric (the precise term for that escapes me at the moment) Such as here -

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bibliodyssey/3415634972/sizes/o/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bibliodyssey/3417311355/sizes/o/

Is that something that can be considered an usual, or an unusual practice, or is it to be understood as an expression of artistic license, or perhaps something more specific, such as a fashion of the time?

I was also interested to see a large variety in the lance points in this book, and lance points aren't something I normally think about.

Finally if anyone knows anything more about this Tournament Book or regarding its context I would be interested to know where I could find some additional information.

Thanks,

W.

[William Knight]

Well, the original drawings can't be from 1540, since Burgkmair died in 1531 and those armours don't look radically different from those shown in the Triumph of Maiximilian c 1515.

As to the horse armours, I'm almost certain they're covered with some sort of damask fabric. I doubt this is artistic license, since it a) seems plausible and b) I've seen other portrayals of something like this--two illustrations in Arms and Armour of the Medieval Knight (one of the back cover, one on the second page of the 16th century chapter) show knights riding horses covered in rich fabric (cut high, at the top of the legs, like this), which may or may not be covering plate armour.

-Wilhelm

[Witek Chmielewski]

Interesting point about the timeframe, although there was a Burgkmair the Younger as well. Not being too knowledgeable about the evolution of armour in the 16th Century I'm not sure how much tournament armour changed over that period.

I was tentatively leaning towards the fabric conclusion myself, after examining the details close up, which suggested damsked patterns but did not want to assume anything. It certainly conjures a much more colourful effect than one simply of steel. I've seen pieces such as the Martin Van Royne horse armour for Henry VIII, with large amounts of embossed decoration, and simply assumed that plainer armour would be left bare, but using rich fabrics makes sense.

I'd be interested in acquiring a copy of that book, Arms & Armour of the Medieval Knight, i'll see if I can get one from somewhere.

[William Knight]

I'd also recommending looking up a copy of "The Triumph of Maximilian" which I was able to get used (as a Dover book) for around 10 dollars. The armours in this manuscript are so similar to those in "The Triumph" that I wonder if they weren't directly copied. The features that most stand out to me as earlier 16th century features are the rounded breastplates and the single-piece tassets.

As to the different forms of lance heads, they are all for different types of joust, mostly variations on the particularly German Rennen (sharp lances) and gestech (multi-prong lances) but also some armed for the tournament--those are the knights that are wearing field armour with reinforcing pieces.

-Wilhelm

[Werner Stiegler]