Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Leather Armour: Viking/Medieval Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12 
Author Message
Ryan S.




Location: Germany
Joined: 04 May 2012

Posts: 363

PostPosted: Thu 12 Oct, 2023 1:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dear Mark Millman,

I am not sure that I am right, and as my opinon has changed more than once since the start I will clarify. I believe that both these quotes from the same book refer to the same garment:

"The common folk among the Wild Scots go out to battle with the whole body clad in a linen garment sewed together in patchwork, well daubed with wax or with pitch, and with an over-coat of deerskin"

"Those among them that are of more civility have no other shirts than what are made from deers' hides, and the plaids of their wild men are not otherwise"

The first quote has already appeared in this thread in another form, an it was taken to mean gambeson covered in leather:
Neal Matheson wrote:
John Major's description of wild scots, published 1521

From the middle of the thigh to the foot they have no covering for the leg, clothing themselves with a mantle instead of an upper garment and a shirt dyed with safforn. ... In time of war they cover their whole body with a shirt of mail of iron rings, and fight in that. The common people of the Highland (lit. 'wild') Scots rush into battle having their body clothed with a linen garment manifoldly sewed and painted or daubed with pitch, with a covering of deerskin."

in latin

A medio crure ad pedem caligas non habent, chlamyde pro veste superiore et camisia croco tincta. amiciuntur. ... Tempore belli loricam ex loris ferreis per totum corpus induunt et in illa pugnant. In panno lineo multipliciter intersuto et coerato aut picato cum cervinæ pellis coopertura vulgus sylvestrium Scotorum corpus tectum habens in prælium prosilit.


I think the most likely explanation, is as you suggested, that John Major is describing contemporary highland military equipment. and that Majors is having King Edward say that the Scots are poorly armoured. I am sorry, if I have gone too far off topic. And if I have missed something or made a mistake please point it out.

regards,
Ryan
View user's profile Send private message
Ryan S.




Location: Germany
Joined: 04 May 2012

Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat 21 Oct, 2023 11:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Wilde Irishe, a reeactment group have two articles discussing leather armour. The articles overlap with what they cover, and mainly have to do with what the Irish Chieftain in Derricke´s Image of Ireland. They consider other options, but lean towards the interpration that the helmet and doublet are made from gilted leather, a type of leather made in Spain painted and treated with silver, and later tin. They also connect this to the "Leather quilted jack" mentioned by Edmund Spenser.

https://www.wildeirishe.com/_files/ugd/71b4fd_26323c0dfe444834a0b193cc2a3f44fc.pdf
https://www.wildeirishe.com/post/the-armour-of-derricke-s-chieftain


It seems that these do not refer to true leather armour, but rather leather covered armour. The quote from Spenser as well as the quote from John Majors could mislead someone to believe that a pure leather garment is meant, what the leather or deerskin is just the outer covering. My guess is that the leather outerlayer provided some degree of waterproofing, which is probably important when wearing 30 layers of cloth. The sources are also rather late in relation to the middle ages and the viking era.
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Leather Armour: Viking/Medieval
Page 12 of 12 Reply to topic
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12 All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2024 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum