Messer: searching location & info -- myArmoury.com

Peter Johnsson · Industry Professional

I recently came across a nice messer. Photos were posted on a german forum, but I could not make out any mention of where the photos were taken. Possibly some of our german speaking memebers recognize the images.
What I´d like to know is where the messer might be located.
Anyone recognize this beautiful messer, or perhaps even have come across it on a pilgrimage? I thought that the helmet might reveal what museum it is. I am not familiar enough of these, unfortunately....

(EDIT: now I am fairly sure the helmet is the one Chad Arnow uses as his signature mage.
Chad: could you provide some clues, please?)

I thought at first it was a Polish weapon, that I had some info on. But comparing the drawing in the article makes it clear it is a different weapon.

It would be worth while to make a trip just to study this one first hand!

Images:

Chad Arnow · myArmoury Team

Peter,
If that's this helm:

Then that helm was/is in the Germanisches Nationalmuseum, Nuremburg, according to Howard Curtis's book 2,500 Years of European Helmets.

But the fleurs de lis look different and the central reinforcing band at the occularium seems different/not present.

Edit: the more I look at it, the less sure I am that these are the same two helms. The one in Peter's pic, has different fleurs de lis and rivets where the Nuremburg helm is missing them.

Peter Johnsson · Industry Professional

Thanks Chad!

No, you are right: they are not the same. The shape and placing of the fleur de lys is different. There are rivets along the top which is flat, or near flat, on the helm n the image I posted, while your helm has a ridged top and holes instead of rivets. Interesting there are two such similar hems surviving!

M. Eversberg II · Posted: Wed 05 Aug, 2009 9:34 am Post subject:

Would this particular kind of sidearm be considered a "Bauernwehr"?

M.

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

Peter, great find. I love that example. Wow.

Martin Fischer · Posted: Wed 05 Aug, 2009 10:19 am Post subject:

Hi Peter,

the Messer is from the Collection in Schloss Glatt/Germany, I think.

The original dates around 1500 - I've got a replica of it, made by Manfred Pany. You can see it (including some measurements) at:

http://www.manfred-pany.de/index.php?title=ga...ategorie=1

Here's a very similar piece:

http://www.dietraumschmiede.de/fecht/fecht.htm

This type of Messer appears in some Lehküchner-manuscripts for example. It was a popular weapon particulary in the south of Germany.

regards

Martin

Sean Flynt · Posted: Wed 05 Aug, 2009 10:20 am Post subject:

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

Martin Fischer · Posted: Wed 05 Aug, 2009 10:28 am Post subject:

Hello again,

I don`t think that this was shortened - this type of short cross was not unusual and you can find it on a lot of pictures of the very late 15th cent..

Regards

Martin

Peter Johnsson · Industry Professional

Martin: Thank you very much! This is valuable information.

Sean: short guard is a feature on some Messer. The same short guard is clearly illustrated in the Lehküchner-manuscripts, just as Martin said. For some types of techniques a short guard may be a benefit. I think it is much a matter of time and locality as well.

Thank you all for so ready and quick responses!
I have now a trail to follow :-)