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Kirk Lee Spencer
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 Posted: Tue 27 Jul, 2004 6:16 pm Post subject: Why could they not use this as Excalibur? |
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I found this color picture of the Snartemo sword in a book I recently found at Halfprice Books. I thought I would share it with you all.
With so many Excaliburs that look like knightly swords (most movie versions) or Antenna swords in steel (The movie Merlin) or wallhanger fantasy types (recent King Arthur movie)... Why could they not use the Snartemo sword... Especially when they are trying to push it back into the fifth century. The Snartemo sword is from the early sixth or late fifth century (I believe). It certainly looks like the sword of a king. And it even has elements that would not disappoint (too much) those who were looking for a more knightly sword.
ks
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
Last edited by Kirk Lee Spencer on Fri 19 Nov, 2004 7:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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Brian M
Location: Austin, TX Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 500
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| Posted: Tue 27 Jul, 2004 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, I'd never seen a picture of that one. What detail! Unfortunately such detail would not show up well on camera except in a macro-shot. But yes, I wish for once a movie would use a realistic sword instead of a cheesy fantasy piece.
Hmm. What was that movie many years ago, where the hero (Lee Horsely?) had this three-bladed sword, where the two side-blades shot out like projectiles?
Brian M
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Joe Yurgil
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| Posted: Wed 28 Jul, 2004 5:49 am Post subject: |
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Wow, that is one awsome sword!   I always thought it was amaizing how they used to put such detail into weaponry. Thanks for the picture Kirk.
Brian, I think the movie was called The Sorcerer and the Swordsman or something.
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Eric McHugh
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 28 Jul, 2004 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Why could they not use this as Excalibur? |
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| Kirk Lee Spencer wrote: | I found this color picture of the Snartemo sword in a book I recently found at Halfprice Books. I thought I would share it with you all.
With so many Excaliburs that look like knightly swords (most movie versions) or Antenna swords in steel (The movie Merlin) or wallhanger fantasy types (recent King Arthur movie)... Why could they not use the Snartemo sword... Especially when they are trying to push it back into the fifth century. The Snartemo sword is from the early sixth or late fifth century (I believe). It certainly looks like the sword of a king. And it even has elements that would not disappoint (too much) those who were looking for a more knightly sword.
ks |
Oh man! This subject really gets me going. I am so tired of Hollywood. Someone finally makes a movie that at least has King Arthur close to the right time period, and instead of using existing, ultra cool, examples of swords, they use some fantasy piece. I want to write and say to Jerry B. that you could have done it right for once. Some people argue, "well, no one knows the difference." Well, there is a reason for that: Hollywood keeps making swords like this and everyone thinks that is what they looks like. The real kicker is that these swords are not cheap! So, if you are going to spend the money, why not get something that is "correct" instead of a fantasy sword. It just doesn't make sense to me. But this is my opinion.
Find me on Facebook, or check out my blog. Contact me at eric@crownforge.net or ericmycue374@comcast.net if you want to talk about a commission or discuss an available piece.
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David Wilson
Location: In a van down by the river Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 802
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| Posted: Wed 28 Jul, 2004 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Ah yes, the Snartemo... the sword upon which the Marto #520 is based.... I wish someone made a functional version of it (Patrick Barta could, I'm sure)....
But there are so many wonderful late Roman/Early Migration-era designs that would have been just fine as Arthur's sword. I was thinking that something like Albion's Kraghul Bog sword or Patrick Barta's Roman Riding Sword would have been great. I mean, if they're doing "the Historical Arthur", then... ummmm.... they should make it historical?
By the by... anybody want a Marto #520? 
ps. That weird sword movie with Lee Horsely was The Sword and the Sorcerer, a very silly movie featuring the worst sword in all fantasy.....
David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe
Now available on Amazon: Franklin Posner's "Suburban Vampire: A Tale of the Human Condition -- With Vampires" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072N7Y591
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Robert W. Betten
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| Posted: Wed 28 Jul, 2004 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Heh actually when I first opened this thread last night I thought of Patrick Barta straight away, I mean immagine finally seeing a film with pattern welded swords, all accurate to the time period being displayed. Hollywood gets Japanese flicks right cause the katana is a no brainer to pretty much all of japanese feudal history, but they still feel the need to add "ninjato" in etc.
I was sorely disappointed by this film, I think they need to start hiring people in the know...I mean if you know the sword usually you'll study the people and period as well (as I do with japanese history) so I cant grasp why its such a hard task for them to "get it right".
*slaps hollywood*
*!*
"If the people we love are taken from us,
the way they live on is to never stop loving
them. Buildings burn, people die, but real
love is forever." - Sarah 'The Crow'
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Thu 29 Jul, 2004 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| David Wilson wrote: | I wish someone made a functional version of it (Patrick Barta could, I'm sure)....
But there are so many wonderful late Roman/Early Migration-era designs that would have been just fine as Arthur's sword. I was thinking that something like Albion's Kraghul Bog sword or Patrick Barta's Roman Riding Sword would have been great. I mean, if they're doing "the Historical Arthur", then... ummmm.... they should make it historical?
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Aah yes, a Patrick Barta early migration, wide spatha, type sword with beautiful pattern welding. I doubt it would cost any more than they paid for the "King Arthur" monstrosity, maybe less. And I think such a period sword would be even more attractive to those who might not know much about swords. Seeing a close up of a Barta sword in the hands of King Arthur might have the same affect on people as Maximus spatha in Gladiator had on me... start an obsession.
Would have loved to see one of these replicated by Barta and put in the hands of Arthur...
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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William Stevens
Location: Atlanta,Ga Joined: 10 Jul 2004
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Thu 29 Jul, 2004 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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What about Albion's copy of this sword?I know it's not pattern wielded,but it's still a beauty!
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Douglas G.
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| Posted: Wed 04 Aug, 2004 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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I am so with you regarding Hollywood fanatsy dreck. I can only think of a couple of
movies starring swords where they were reasonably accurate. While it is set in
Napoleonic times, the sabres in The Duelists looked on the mark, whether these
were correct French issue I don't know. Then there was a movie with David Hemmings
and Michael York, Alfred the Great I think where the Norse swords to my young eye
seemed wonderfully accurate. Maybe the directors of these new movies are unaware
of the resource available right here. I like to think there not just stupid. Speaking of
swords on screens, in one episode of Star Trek the crew was running around the ship
with swords. I remember I thought the one Chekov had was cool. Does anyone remember
it, if it even was a genuine style?
Doug
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Douglas G.
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| Posted: Wed 04 Aug, 2004 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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I am so with you regarding Hollywood fanatsy dreck. I can only think of a couple of
movies starring swords where they were reasonably accurate. While it is set in
Napoleonic times, the sabres in The Duelists looked on the mark, whether these
were correct French issue I don't know. Then there was a movie with David Hemmings
and Michael York, Alfred the Great I think where the Norse swords to my young eye
seemed wonderfully accurate. Maybe the directors of these new movies are unaware
of the resource available right here. I like to think there not just stupid. Speaking of
swords on screens, in one episode of Star Trek the crew was running around the ship
with swords. I remember I thought the one Chekov had was cool. Does anyone remember
it, if it even was a genuine style?
Doug
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Wed 04 Aug, 2004 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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It's not an issue of Hollywood not having access to accurate material or knowledge.
Hollywood simply doesn't care about such things in general. If you have a director, or production company, who happens to be into that particular subject you may get some accuracy out of them. Otherwise it's not a matter of them not being informed. It's a matter of them simply not caring about the subject.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Jamie Boley
Location: Parker SD Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Wed 04 Aug, 2004 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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People have gotten so used to me, that they don't even ask if I'd like to go to the movies anymore.
I really like that handle though. Are there other good pictures in that book? (Might have to go get it...)
Jamie
Jamie Boley
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Thu 05 Aug, 2004 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| Douglas G. wrote: | I am so with you regarding Hollywood fanatsy dreck. I can only think of a couple of
movies starring swords where they were reasonably accurate. Doug |
Hey Doug...
You're right, there are a few that seem to want to try to get it right. After watching the recent "King Arthur" I needed a way to get my frustration out... so, I bought the DVD for the made for TV movie called "Merlin" It is low budget, but they have great actors (Sam Neil as Merlin, also Martin Short as comic relief). They did a much better job of doing what Buckheimer claimed that "King Arthur" was supposed to do. And they kept the magic. They even went back to show the battle between Uther and Vortigen. They spoke of the legend of the two dragons and the falling tower. All in all, it was very good movie (IMHO). And, other than a few, later medieval swords here and there, the swords were accurate. Vortigen even has a ring hilt that he handels in several scenes. Looks almost like a Barta sword but with no pattern welding and the grip seems to be a little larger than period pieces. Excalibur looks very much like a bronze age antenna sword in steel. I suppose if it is a sword fished out of a sacred lake, it might be from the bronze age... but it is made of bright steel! Go figure.
I also thought the swords in the movie "Timeline" were well done... I think it was an Albion project.
ks
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Thu 05 Aug, 2004 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| Patrick Kelly wrote: | It's not an issue of Hollywood not having access to accurate material or knowledge.
Hollywood simply doesn't care about such things in general. If you have a director, or production company, who happens to be into that particular subject you may get some accuracy out of them. Otherwise it's not a matter of them not being informed. It's a matter of them simply not caring about the subject. |
Hey Patrick...
I read somewhere that Paul Binns was commissioned to produce Excalibur for the "King Arthur" movie. His prototype was a typical Roman spatha ( would like to see this) but they said it was not flashy enough. So he came up with the fantasy looking thing in the movie. So this supports your statement that it is not a matter of knowledge but what they think looks best on screen (or whatever else causes them to diverse from history in a supposed historical piece).
ks
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Thomas Jason
Location: New Joisey Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 230
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| Posted: Thu 05 Aug, 2004 10:46 am Post subject: |
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Wasn't Jody Samson's "Senatorial Spatha" a prototype submitted for Arthur as well?
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Thu 05 Aug, 2004 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Kirk Lee Spencer wrote: | | Patrick Kelly wrote: | It's not an issue of Hollywood not having access to accurate material or knowledge.
Hollywood simply doesn't care about such things in general. If you have a director, or production company, who happens to be into that particular subject you may get some accuracy out of them. Otherwise it's not a matter of them not being informed. It's a matter of them simply not caring about the subject. |
Hey Patrick...
I read somewhere that Paul Binns was commissioned to produce Excalibur for the "King Arthur" movie. His prototype was a typical Roman spatha ( would like to see this) but they said it was not flashy enough. So he came up with the fantasy looking thing in the movie. So this supports your statement that it is not a matter of knowledge but what they think looks best on screen (or whatever else causes them to diverse from history in a supposed historical piece).
ks |
Unfortunately that seems to be the case with Hollywood, more often than not, doesn't it? A rather elaborate Spatha design wouldn't have been bad, much better than what they wound up with.
Vortigerns sword in Merlin was a Del Tin. I can't remember the model number. There were several DT's in that production.
The swords from Timeline were actually assembled from mostly loose MRL components, maybe some DT components as well. Albion wasn't involved in the production, but they bought the license to make replicas of the movie swords.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Thu 05 Aug, 2004 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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Albion making replicas of Museum Replica movie props 
Here is a case of the replica being better than the original!
ks
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Thu 05 Aug, 2004 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Jamie Boley wrote: |
I really like that handle though. Are there other good pictures in that book? (Might have to go get it...)
Jamie |
Hi Jamie...
Welcome to the forum.
That book only has one color picture of a sword hilt... there is also a small black and white photo of a migration type hilt. I did find a book on barbarian art that has about six or seven sword pictures in it all in color. Here is a thread I started and a book review...
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38747
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38747
If you want to find a book with color pics of swords this one would be a much better find.
ks
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Douglas G.
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| Posted: Thu 05 Aug, 2004 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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Hello Kirk,
First I want to say I stand in awe of the job you did on that Albion
Bronze Ager. Wouldn't it have been cool to see that in Brad Pitt's hand
in Troy? Of course then they might also have done an accurate
portrayal of warfare in the end stages of Mycenaen Greece. Nah!
Better to have zillions of men engaged in a WWF over-the top, and
Achilles wielding his bat wing Ninja sword (with the eyeball in the
Tsuba) I had a neighbor once who had secreted a bronze javeline
point he found in the ruins of Tyrins in the 30's out of Greece. Wish I'd
sucked up to him.
Best,
Doug
"I am a Grey man" -Mercutio
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Thu 05 Aug, 2004 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Douglas G. wrote: | Hello Kirk,
First I want to say I stand in awe of the job you did on that Albion
Bronze Ager. Wouldn't it have been cool to see that in Brad Pitt's hand
in Troy? ...I had a neighbor once who had secreted a bronze javeline
point he found in the ruins of Tyrins in the 30's out of Greece. Wish I'd
sucked up to him.
Best,
Doug
"I am a Grey man" -Mercutio |
Hi Doug...
Thanks for the compliment, it's turning a nice aged reddish brown now.
I know that one of the props in the "Troy" movie was based on the "Woodhouse Dagger"...
I think they put it in the hands of Patroclus. There were several quick close-in shots.
When I get the DVD will be able to see it a little better.
In the summer of 86 I was on a dig in the Jezreel Valley of northern Israel. The head archeologist let us keep some of the stuff we found, stuff they already had... nothing of real value of course. I often wondered if I had uncovered a nice bronze sword if I would try to secret it off the tell... I would hope I would do the right thing. But alas they had me in an Iron Age I strata so it was very unlikely I was going to find a bronze sword. We did find some rusty spots that may have been swords at one time...
ks
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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This is a standard topic