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Mike Arledge
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 Posted: Sun 20 Jul, 2008 8:20 am Post subject: Small Review: Generation 2 Henry V Sword |
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Stats:
Weight: 2 lbs 9 ounces
Overall Length: 34 inches
Grip: 3 and 1/2 inches
Blade Length: 28 inches from guard
Point of Balance: approx. 4 inches from guard
Center or Percussion: approx. 20 inches from guard
Distal Taper
At Crossguard -.70 cm
At COP - .40 cm
Initial Impressions:
Interesting take on the classically acclaimed sword design.
Appearance:
This sword in my appearance is a major step up for the Generation 2 lineup. The castings look great, the blade shape and finish are even and precise, and the leather used on the grip has a smoother, less shiny finish that previous offerings. Gone are the metal bolsters on the grip that plagued “authenticity seekers” in the past with Generation 2 pieces. The hollow grind on the blade is more subtle that I would have though visually, but it is detectable. The profile of the blade is nice, and I was actually surprised how narrow the blade ended up being at the cross. The pommel is a bit on the big side for what I know of swords of this size and type, but not knowing what the original was like, that may be more correct than my personal taste prefers. The scabbard is well done for this price range, being wood core covered in leather. All in all, a very well done sword for this price range.
Handling:
Oh my! Are you in for a treat. I was not expecting this. My initial “feel” was that this piece was going to be a bit heavy or slow from my static handling. But once I got it up to speed and moving, it was not bad at all. Its not a laser beam for movements, but rather it is well within normal expectations for a sword of this type, and it sure packs a punch. Now, to where it shines… It is a beast for cutting. And I don’t mean this lightly. Simply put, I don’t know if I have ever handled a single hand production piece that cuts with so much force or ferocity. And this is truly a surprise because of the blade style/size combined with the hollow grind. I spoke with Clyde about this and he said Mike Harris had similar feedback from his review of this model for the SBG site. In my opinion, this sword cuts targets like a two hander. I testing this piece on more than just soft targets too. It demolishes maple branches, springy woods, just about any “cuttable” object I could find.
Durability:
One issue came up with this model that I have already spoken to Clyde about. When attempting a simple “flex test”, I braced the tip against a 2X4 for a flex. The issue was that this actually bent the tip. I don’t know what the cause was, and for my purposes, I am willing to grant that this could be a one off event as opposed to a design flaw, until Clyde has time to examine the blade after I send it back and provide better feedback on what caused the bend. This is obviously pause for concern, but my hope is that it can be addressed at the foundry if it is a problem to the design or heat treat process, and I am sure Clyde will let us know as soon as he can.
What you should expect:
The cost of this model is $279 from Imperialweapons.com. Assuming the concerns with the tip are addressed with a good answer, I will be buying this sword for myself, and would recommend it for those looking at this design. I have handled the River Witham model of the Gen2 Reinhardt line, and I must say I like this one better not only as an example of its type, but also as a sword exhibiting a better level of fit and finish and attention to aesthetic detail. It’s a beast of a cutting sword too!
Mike J Arledge
The Dude Abides
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sun 20 Jul, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the review, Mike. I have to say, based on the photos, and based off of your impressions, this one looks like its a big step in the right direction for Gen2. Assuming heat treat issues are addressed, it looks like it might be a good deal for the below-$300 range.
HistoricalHandcrafts.com
-Inspired by History, Crafted by Hand
"For practice is better than artfulness. Your exercise can do well without artfulness, but artfulness is not much good without the exercise.” -anonymous 15th century fencing master, MS 3227a
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Clyde Hollis
Industry Professional
Location: Tennessee Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 72
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| Posted: Mon 21 Jul, 2008 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| Bill Grandy wrote: | | Thanks for the review, Mike. I have to say, based on the photos, and based off of your impressions, this one looks like its a big step in the right direction for Gen2. Assuming heat treat issues are addressed, it looks like it might be a good deal for the below-$300 range. |
Yes, it will be addressed and has been addressed at the foundry. The flex of the blade according to Mike was good, but yes the tip bent. In PM's discussion (which I will look closer once we have it back) it seems they distilled tapered the tip, which should not have been on that blade. It makes to keen of a point, thus (in my humble opinion) weakens the tip so that it either bends or in some cases snaps.
On that blade the tip is to be thick in the spine to the tip, in this case (because this is a new style blade they have never done) it was thinned out at the tip (or distilled tapered) and with the hollow ground blade just was not enough substance there. But he said the rest of the blade did have stiffness,that it should have.
As Mike explained to me how well it cut. I just can't still come to terms how a hollow ground blade (made for thrusting) can cut so well. 
Thanks for the review Mike! 
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Mike Arledge
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| Posted: Mon 21 Jul, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: |
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That was my opinion as well, but I wanted to hold back until more info was available. There certainly need to be more meat along the spine near the tip, and it would seem that too much was removed in the shaping process. I'll have it back on its way to you tomorrow Clyde!
Mike J Arledge
The Dude Abides
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Tue 22 Jul, 2008 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Mike,
I was sent one of these for review and mine had the same issues yours did. Though I liked the handling of the one I was sent, I'm looking forward to seeing a corrected version.
Neat little sword.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Mike Arledge
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| Posted: Wed 23 Jul, 2008 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: | Mike,
I was sent one of these for review and mine had the same issues yours did. Though I liked the handling of the one I was sent, I'm looking forward to seeing a corrected version.
Neat little sword. |
Thanks for the additional feedback. Hopefully it is easy to address, because I would like to get the corrected verion for myself.
Mike J Arledge
The Dude Abides
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Roger Hooper
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| Posted: Wed 23 Jul, 2008 9:36 am Post subject: |
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It seems like a good sword for the money. But the one thing bothers me. It's the recessed pommel boss - the edges are rounded instead of angular, and it looks kind of like a doughnut sitting on the pommel.. To me it just doesn't look right.
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Grayson C.
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| Posted: Wed 23 Jul, 2008 10:13 am Post subject: |
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Roger, I know it looks weird, but that's EXACTLY how the original looks.
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Clyde Hollis
Industry Professional
Location: Tennessee Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 72
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| Posted: Thu 24 Jul, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| Roger Hooper wrote: | | It seems like a good sword for the money. But the one thing bothers me. It's the recessed pommel boss - the edges are rounded instead of angular, and it looks kind of like a doughnut sitting on the pommel.. To me it just doesn't look right. |
Yes as Grayson says it is exactly how the original is. Please look at Ewart's Book "Records of the Medieval Sword" and there are several pictures in there on this sword.
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Roger Hooper
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| Posted: Thu 24 Jul, 2008 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| Clyde Hollis wrote: |
Yes as Grayson says it is exactly how the original is. Please look at Ewart's Book "Records of the Medieval Sword" and there are several pictures in there on this sword. |
I looked up the Henry V sword (XVIII.1) in Records last night, and it does have some close-ups of the pommel. I was expecting to say the the A&A version of the pommel was more accurate, but yours is indeed very much closer.
Oakeshott writes that the ringed pommel bosses on this sword are separate hollow pieces which were "braised on." I bet you didn't do that, as users would bang the pommel against something and eventually knock off the boss.
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Dan Dickinson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 24 Jul, 2008 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| Roger Hooper wrote: |
Oakeshott writes that the ringed pommel bosses on this sword are separate hollow pieces which were "braised on." I bet you didn't do that, as users would bang the pommel against something and eventually knock off the boss. |
Actually Roger, the funny thing is that I believe they are...though they are welded, rather than being brazed.
I believe the main difference in construction is that the main part of the pommel on the Gen 2 is a ring, rather than the solid disc of the original.
Dan
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Jonathan Blair
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| Posted: Thu 24 Jul, 2008 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Clyde,
Once you have corrected the heat treat issue satisfactorily, I will likely pick this sword up, based on the glowing reviews concerning it. Without having the sword in hand, it looks as if after some minor corrections to the scabbard chape and throat, it will likely pass my living history group's way super-stringent vetting process.
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." - The Lord Jesus Christ, from The Gospel According to Saint Matthew, chapter x, verse 34, Authorized Version of 1611
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Thu 24 Jul, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Roger Hooper wrote: |
Oakeshott writes that the ringed pommel bosses on this sword are separate hollow pieces which were "braised on." I bet you didn't do that, as users would bang the pommel against something and eventually knock off the boss. |
What's wrong with brazing? There are historical maces with the flanges brazed on. They held up fine. Brazing was fairly common and pretty sturdy from the look of things.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Thu 24 Jul, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| Dan Dickinson wrote: | Actually Roger, the funny thing is that I believe they are...though they are welded, rather than being brazed.
I believe the main difference in construction is that the main part of the pommel on the Gen 2 is a ring, rather than the solid disc of the original.
Dan |
Interestingly enough, Gen 2 cites the pommel's construction as a reason why they are over the original's weight. A pommel like Gen 2's should be lighter than the original's as the original had a solid central disk...
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Dan Dickinson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 24 Jul, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Chad, that strikes me as odd too....unless the metal used for the bosses is much thicker than the original (would seem to have to be much, much thicker to compensate).
Dan
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Mon 01 Sep, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Just ordered the Generation 2 Henri V from Kult of Athena and I guess I will see first hand if the point problem has been fixed.
I assume that it has since it should be a production model and not an early prototype that it should be O.K.
I guess I should have asked first before ordering but you know how that doesn't work when one sees something they want
" NOW " .   :loll: Oh, well somebody has to be the first.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Mon 01 Sep, 2008 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | Just ordered the Generation 2 Henri V from Kult of Athena and I guess I will see first hand if the point problem has been fixed.
I assume that it has since it should be a production model and not an early prototype that it should be O.K.
I guess I should have asked first before ordering but you know how that doesn't work when one sees something they want
" NOW " . :loll: Oh, well somebody has to be the first. |
According to Clyde, updated models should be available in September-October at the earliest. It may be the too-tapered model.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Mon 01 Sep, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: | | Jean Thibodeau wrote: | Just ordered the Generation 2 Henri V from Kult of Athena and I guess I will see first hand if the point problem has been fixed.
I assume that it has since it should be a production model and not an early prototype that it should be O.K.
I guess I should have asked first before ordering but you know how that doesn't work when one sees something they want
" NOW " . :loll: Oh, well somebody has to be the first. |
According to Clyde, updated models should be available in September-October at the earliest. It may be the too-tapered model. |
Well, technically it is September, but maybe too early still for the sturdier point ?
Well then the heat treat has to be good and then the problem won't be too severe ? Will, look at it and if it's really bad I guess I could always send it back and I have sent an e-mail asking Ryan at Kult of Athena about it. ( Improved/corrected model or not? Or he can tell me what he thinks just looking at the point if it looks to fragile or not ? I might be able to use my payment to pay for a later version instead of cancelling, but my first choice is to go ahead with purchasing this one if Ryan thinks it looks O.K.)
Depending on the blade profile it might work to take away and inch of blade and reprofile it for a sturdier tip. ( Theoretical fix I would rather avoid though and obviously would only do that if I decided to keep it rather than sending it back ).
Thanks for the information Chad but I'm not going to worry about it until I see it up close: Life is just to short to sweat the small stuff 
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
Last edited by Jean Thibodeau on Mon 01 Sep, 2008 11:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Mon 01 Sep, 2008 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | Well then the heat treat has to be good and then the problem won't be too severe ? Will, look at it and if it's really bad I guess I could always send it back and I have sent an e-mail asking Ryan at Kult of Athena about it. ( Improved/corrected model or not? Or he can tell me what he thinks just looking at the point if it looks to fragile or not ?
Depending on the blade profile it might work to take away and inch of blade and reprofile it for a sturdier tip. ( Theoretical fix I would rather avoid though and obviously would only do that if I decided to keep it rather than sending it back ).
Thanks for the information Chad but I'm not going to worry about it until I see it up close: Life is just to short to sweat the small stuff |
I don't think the heat treat was the issue. I believe the distal taper was just too severe and the point was too thin in thickness. I had a version like that here for review and it handled really well.
I'm curious to see the correct version.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Brian K.
Industry Professional
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 727
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| Posted: Mon 01 Sep, 2008 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Having done custom work on a number of these, I can tell you nothing has changed, yet. My thorough inspection of each one tells me that the problem isn't random either. They all have a very thin tip, making for a poor thrusting sword. However, aside from the random 'crooked' furniture, most of them seem to be fine swords for the sub $300 category. I haven't done any cutting with any of the, but from what I've been told they make for a good cutting sword.
Brian Kunz
www.dbkcustomswords.com
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