Spear construction -- myArmoury.com

Jacob D. Green · Posted: Fri 20 Feb, 2009 3:07 pm Post subject: Spear construction

I'm trying to make a spear that's reasonably historically accurate from the time of the Third Crusade. There's a spearhead from Native Way I'm interested in purchasing (referred to in an old post on this forum which I can't find):

http://nativeway.safewebshop.com/socketed_lance_head.html

I want to fit it on a good 6' or 7' handle. I've found the 84" ash pole from the Armory and a 72" white oak bo staff that I can use:

http://www.armory.net/item.cfm/RecordID/AP-1111.htm

http://www.wle.com/products/00279.html

Any suggestions, information, or history that you might have would be fantastic. Also, what do you suggest I do about shipping costs? I can't reach the Armory for more information, and the price for shipping oversize items like these poles are outrageous.

Thanks in advance for the help,

Jacob

D. Austin · Industry Professional

Have you checked your local hardware store for 40mm hardwood dowel? It may cost a lot compared to your spear head but this way you could avoid paying shipping costs. Just look for a nice straight one with the grain mostly running straight down it's length.

Jacob D. Green · Posted: Fri 20 Feb, 2009 4:51 pm Post subject:

That's a good idea... I figured hardware stores would only have shovel handles and closet rods, and I didn't figure the rods would be of great quality.

Matthew Amt · Posted: Fri 20 Feb, 2009 6:40 pm Post subject:

The spearhead looks nice, but 1-1/2 inch diameter socket? That sounds awfully big! I'd say even 1-1/4" is pushing it. One inch to 1-1/8" is a better range, at least for an infantry spear. Don't know if cavalry lances were heavier, maybe. Anyone have any hard data for that era? Most of what I know is Greek and Roman (which frequently were under an inch!).

I've gotten some nice bronze tidbits and other stuff from Native Way. Generally nice folks to deal with. But, "A lance is a thrusting, stabbing tool as opposed to a spear." Um, what?

Vale,

Matthew

Jacob D. Green · Posted: Fri 20 Feb, 2009 7:53 pm Post subject:

Andrew Pribor · Posted: Fri 20 Feb, 2009 8:04 pm Post subject:

Hello, this was my experience with this piece,

I purchased this spear head a little over a year ago & had a friend pin the head onto a hardwood shaft so I could use it in some spear training on straw bales (non hard targets)

The head snapped off at the thinnest junction after only a couple clean throws. It appears that just the weight of the shaft was enough to break it. The steel had the "powdery" look of a poorly cast piece, hence the low price and : "hand made to our specifications in Pakistan"

If this only a decoration piece, no problem, but if you plan on actually using the spear for anything other than show, beware.

For only a little bit more money you can get a more historically correct & functional spear head.
(though I do now have a very nice steel tipped bon fire stick Big Grin

)

Gavin Kisebach · Posted: Fri 20 Feb, 2009 8:14 pm Post subject:

Hey Jacob,

I have two of these lance heads. There was a little discussion of these in this thread:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...ght=native

Basically I was very happy with the heads, but the sockerts are very thick. The good news is that they are generic enough to be useable in a wide range of eras and areas, without having a fantasy/ahistorical feel. Plus the price is great.

I have one on a plain old 1 /18th inch closet rod (shhh don't tell anyone) and one on a hardwood walking staff. I don't plan on puncturing any bodies with them so that works for me, plus hardwood is ghastly expensive here in the US NW. We did dig up a website that sells ash poles for tree limbing saws, that is probably the cheapest way to buy long ash poles, but the shipping is going to hurt even so.

R D Moore · Posted: Fri 20 Feb, 2009 8:36 pm Post subject:

Hi, Jacob

I bought two of these lance heads, too, and couldn't find any hardwood hafts in 1 1/2" diameter that wouldn't have to be custom turned. I did an internet search using "hanwei spear hafts" and ordered a couple from a California (I can't remember who) company. They sent them in a 7 foot heavy cardboard tube and were well packed. The shipping was over $35.00, though...$20 for the lance head, $24 for the 7' ash haft and $17.50 for the shipping...per lance. I believe the shipping was going to be $35 for one haft so the two of them spread the cost a bit.

Jacob D. Green · Posted: Sat 21 Feb, 2009 6:57 am Post subject:

Thanks for the information, guys.

D. Austin, I did check at my hardware store, and they didn't have anything over 4' in length.

Andrew, you say

R D Moore · Posted: Sat 21 Feb, 2009 9:18 am Post subject:

Jacob

That is the compant I bought mine from: http://www.iloveswords.com/CEL_Access101.html

I used a wood rasp to fit the pole to the lance head. Fill the socket with soot from an alchohol lamp or a candle, fit the socket to the pole, and take down the sooted high spots with the rasp or file. Be careful when you get close to the finish not to take too much wood off. The ideal is to have a snugly fitted lance head while leaving the tapered end fairly well sooted...closest fit you can get of wood to metal.

This may be a better source for you: http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=CIOX005 It looks to be less money and closer to VA.

Matthew Amt · Posted: Sat 21 Feb, 2009 9:33 am Post subject:

R D Moore · Posted: Sat 21 Feb, 2009 10:06 am Post subject:

You may want to calculate your initial costs, figure in the hours of labor and then compare it all to this
http://www.arms-n-armor.com/pole146.html

Mark Hanna · Posted: Sat 21 Feb, 2009 11:58 am Post subject:

I have thrown the Hanwie "throwing spear" head with a closet pole shaft quit vigorously without having any problems breaking or bending. The targets were haybails, a shield and earth when we missed.

Mark

Jacob D. Green · Posted: Sat 21 Feb, 2009 3:43 pm Post subject:

D. Austin · Industry Professional

Andrew Pribor · Posted: Sun 22 Feb, 2009 7:12 pm Post subject:

Jared Smith · Posted: Sun 22 Feb, 2009 7:29 pm Post subject:

Many artifacts of "war lance/ spear" head proportion construction actually have very narrow sockets and needle like points. 20 to 23 mm diameter at the base where the wood enters is about right for a wide range of central Europe finds dated near 12th century. (Spear heads are different in your stated period than in earlier Viking-Norman period.) I have not looked in a while, but you can get a feel for proportions and easily scale it from vendors such as Ancient Touch. http://www.ancienttouch.com/medieval%20arms.htm

For a 6 to 7' long spear, you could probably find a long rake handle from the hardware store and just gradually taper the last two feet of it near the socket. Handles made of hickory are heavy, but you may be able to find an ash handle, which would be about right with some tapering.

M. Eversberg II · Posted: Mon 23 Feb, 2009 12:06 am Post subject:

A related question, if I may.

A spear shaft; does it taper from the butt to the head, or is it constant through it's length, then tapering somewhere before the part where the head is fixed?

M.

Jacob D. Green · Posted: Mon 23 Feb, 2009 8:02 am Post subject:

M. Eversberg, go here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...ght=native ...The discussion leads me to believe the staffs were straight until the socket , then there's a taper to fit the head. I could be misinterpreting the posts, but I think they're straight.

Jared, thanks for the link - that's most helpful. The Windlass "Viking spear head" seems most like the first two spears on the site; I've changed my mind about the Native Way head and will be buying that one. It's not as thin as the Hanwei spear, but I won't have to remove all of that niello crap.

D. Austin and Andrew, thanks for your replies - As I said above, I've decided to go with the Windlass product from KoA.... more expensive, but higher quality, right? And I won't have to shrink the socket or find a 1.5" staff to shape.