[Chad Arnow]

[Brian K.]

[James Aldrich]

When this thread arose I was already thinking about the possibility of having a scabbard for my Yeoman made without having to ship it. If the Yeoman is a model for which that option becomes available I will likely take the chance.

JSA

[Jim J]

Brian;
Hi I just bought the Albion Crecy sword from you but could not afford at this time to have you make a scabbard for it. Also I am too attached to my swords to ship them off for custom work. just a quirk of mine.

Have you ever considered making an all leather basic sheath like Christian Fletcher does? Inner core oak tanned leather non corrosive, outer core chrome tanned leather. It seems to me that this kind of scabbard could be made to measurements from the buyer with a little looseness built in to be safe. I would be interested in this type of scabbard as I only use the scabbard for moving the sword from room to room and for light transport so a custom period scabbard would not be cost effective for me.

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Jim J]

Well said Jean; I heartily second this suggestion.

[Sean Flynt]

Here's my wish:

I make the poplar core because I have the blade and the woodworking skills. Then I send you the core for expert covering. Shipping would be reasonable because the core will fit in a packing tube.

That way I don't have to invest in large amounts of leather I probably won't use, and I won't have a nice core hidden under a botched DIY leather cover.

What would you estimate for that service?

[Brian K.]

[Sean Flynt]

[Brian K.]

I would be willing to do this on a case by case basis, with small print of course referring to no 2x4s & lag bolts . But this method would also require a deposit beforehand. Something else to consider is how the rain guard fits the guard of the sword, which I cannot anticipate without the sword. That is another custom element I do that makes 'em look good.

[Nathan Robinson]

Hi Brian-

In my humble opinion, this topic is full of bad ideas.

I would suggest stepping back and looking at this not from the perspective of the final solution, but as per the problem that you're wishing to solve. From there, you can find a solution to that problem (or problems) and make compromises when difficulties arise. It's difficult to assess such things when you look at the end-goal and muddy it up with all these opinions. Look at the source problem instead.

For example, if the source problem is:

"I want more sales and I feel that the point of entry to my products may be too large for many customers because they do not want to add so much money via shipping charges on top of the sword and scabbard price. This creates a final price that is prohibitive to many customers. Further, customers feel there is a risk to adding additional time in transit that may lead to loss or damage."

One solution may be:

Offer to new sword buyers the option of having the sword shipped from the manufacturer directly to you. From there, you can make the scabbard and ship the completed ensemble to the customer. This saves two rounds of shipping, perhaps averaging $40-$50. Determine if this constitutes enough savings to settle the problem, and if it does not, consider additional incentives such as offering up free shipping to the customer, saving them an addition $20-25. This would total an average of $60-$75 but would only cost you $20-25 to do so. One additional upside would be that the full ensemble would be completed and in the customer's hands quicker then doing it in stages. Your turn-around seems fast, and so this might be a reasonable solution for you whereas it isn't for people with large backlogs and long project completion times.

Regardless, this addresses both issues described in the source problem: final cost and shipping risk.

Then consider the downsides to this solution:

This would only attract customers of "new" swords and not allow them to handle the sword prior to purchasing. Would this turn away too many customers? Is the savings enough to balance these problems? If it is not, is there a way to add additional incentives to sweeten the deal?


That's just one example, but it shows the process of thought that often goes into these types of decisions. The key in business is not to get muddled up with solving problems related to "solutions", rather to solve problems related to customer needs.

If I were to run the same process on the "swordless scabbard" idea, I'd come up with far more issues that benefits. I'm not sure if that would be a good balance point for me, personally. I'd also consider if I actually had a real interest in being a "core maker" and just how many customers would be interested in this. If the number isn't great, then what is the benefit of doing so? It might be more harmful in terms of marketing than helpful and the earnings wouldn't offset such harm.


This is a version/subset of the standard business practice of "SWOT Analysis". In this process, one looks at an issue by considering: Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunies, and Threats.


I don't know. Food for thought...

[Brian K.]

I knew I opened a can of worms a few posts into this thread. You have pretty much addressed my consensus to the whole situation, but it was nice to receive the feedback that I did. I've already eliminated the idea of taking swordless scabbard orders. The discussion may or may not bring up alternative ideas or solutions. In any event, I applaud the reception.

[Jim J]

Brian; I'm sorry to hear that you've decided against making swordless scabbards. I can well understand the pitfalls that you have to consider as a business man and entrepeneur. However, remember we're talking of a basic utility sheath and not a custom fit period scabbard to proudly display a sword in. I know that there's a good sized segment out there of which I am one, who would benefit from such a service.

I have several "high end" swords in my collection that I would purchase such a sheath for since they did not come with a scabbard and I am not willing to ship my swords off to have custom work done. I realize that is my own personal problem but I am not alone in feeling this way. If you have definitely decided not to pursue this venture, perhaps there is someone out there reading this thread who might be interested in providing this service to a segment of the sword collecting public. Here's a suggestion; why not do a simple voting survey on this or any forum as to who would be interested in this service. that way you would not have to be inundated with suggestions on how to do it. Simply spell out what would be offered, with all the caveats, and ask for a simple yes or no vote.

I know that in today's economy things are tight for both the vendor and the buyer.....I wish I had the skills to offer this service as I know I would not be able to keep up with the demand. I sincerely hope you will reconsider your decision on this matter.
Best of Luck, Jim

[Joe Fults]

[Brian K.]

I'm not necessarily opposed to making what you discussed earlier. I just need to figure out a way to seam up the leather without hand-stitching. Because oak-tanned is too thick for a machine to stitch.

[Jean Thibodeau]

Some sword designs might be easier to make a scabbard for if they have a strait guard and the top of the scabbard need not follow some curves ?

The customer might be able to draw a close tracing of the sword's outline and send that to you ? Better than going from just numbers, maybe ?

Nathan did bring up a lot of negatives at least as far as getting into this to deeply before being sure that customer satisfaction and expectations can be met with a minimum of " failed " attempts that don't work out !

The standards of fit would have to be very different than the standards one would expect from a scabbard made in optimum conditions but for " utility " scabbards the requirements should be lower.

You might try doing a few one-offs with selected clients who understand and accept the risks just to see if it works before committing to offering this as a standard service.

A good example is that I may be buying a Del Tin Cinquedea from Kult of Athena when they have one in stock and since there are no scabbards available for Del Tins at the moment I would have to make my own or get someone to make one.

Sending it to the scabbard maker is an option but I much prefer to not do so.

[Randy W]

I'd also be interested in the swordless scabbard, like others I am loathe to send a sword away for a period of time, but would like the protection of a GOOD LOOKING leather scabbard for safety and aesthetics

Randy W

[Adam O'Byrne]

Hi, this post has finally got me to try to contribute to the discussion =)

I'd first like to say Brian K. that your fine craftsmanship has made me gain a deep appreciation of sword in general. It might seem backwards but to me I always preferred other weapons because the sword was always lacking something to me, but seeing a fine sword resting in a fine scabbard seemed to amplify the craftsmanship of both pieces and completes the picture. So Thank you, to you and all who make swords and scabbards an art form. =)

[Beau Salsman]

I'd also like to throw in my support for swordless scabbard idea. I'm firmly in the camp that won't send a blade off to have it custom fit. If it comes down to waiting to purchase both a new sword and scabbard at once, or get the new sword that much sooner, let's just say I have several blades that don't have scabbards.

That being said, I'm well aware that semi-custom or worse, generic, scabbards aren't going to be of the same fit as a custom. I'm fine with that idea. I very rarely recreate or portray anyone above a common soldier, so I don't feel the need for a lot of what goes into a high-end scabbard. *Which isn't to say I don't appreciate the craftsmanship and work that goes into them.*

Just my .02 cents

[Nathan Robinson]

For those wanting a "swordless scabbard" made:

I'm curious what you guys would pay for such an item. What is your budget?

I'd imagine that the same work will need to go into such a scabbard (as far as the maker is concerned) as one with the sword "in hand". So that means that the cost may be $300-$500, or even more depending on the details.

Is this something you guys would spend? Does it affect your decision to know that the scabbard might not have the best fit to your particular sword?

If the scabbard arrives and does not fit, how is that to be remedied? Who flips the bill for the shipping costs associated with the original shipping, the shipping back to the maker, and the re-shipping to the customer? Would the maker need to have the sword "in hand" on the second time around to fit the scabbard to it? Who flips the bill for the work required to take apart and re-engineer the already-completed piece?

Does this risk affect your decision to purchase such a product?