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James King
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 Posted: Sat 31 Jan, 2009 6:50 am Post subject: corrrect sword |
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There is no "real" difference between a "Viking" sword and a "Saxon" sword in the period your interested in, 800-1000 AD.The only types that would not be common , for a Saxon, would be the wheeler type 2 hilts, which include the peterson type,A,B, C, H, and I. This type hilt is rare in a Anglo-Saxon context. I think one possible wheeler type 2 has been found in England.It has become the common view that the type L hilts were exclusively "saxon" but many more of this type have been found in Norway.(around 40 IIRC) than England. The only real difference in sword of this period would be in the hilt decoration, and that would be slight. The predominant form of decoration was wire inlays in geometric patterns, which were used all over europe at that point. and because of trade, plunder, etc, this would have blurred any distiction between a Saxon , viking, frankish, balkan, etc. sword.A simple answer to your question ...the less expensive Albions that viking shield sell would be a route, The best choice would be the "clontarf" this type (K) dates to @800 AD.This sword is copied from a sword found in Ireland..but it has purely Frankish decoration, and could have easily found its way into Saxon hands,.Many 8 century Saxon swords have very strong resemblences to type k', (fetterlane SP? for example) but that is a a different topic.The vinland (type R) or the gotland(type Z) would both be appropriate for later (post 900) swords as both types have been recoverd in England.Also the period 800-1000 AD is a pretty long time, and the typical Saxon Warrior, or member of the fryd , would have become much better armed over time.
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David Sutton
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| Posted: Sat 31 Jan, 2009 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| Jeroen Zuiderwijk wrote: | | Huh? Are you implying that the one people bearing the name of their throwing axes did not use axes in combat? |
I think you are confusing the use of the term 'Frank' (as in ancient German tribal confederation) and the later use of the term 'Frank' (broadly meaning western continental Europeans).
'Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all'
'To teach superstitions as truth is a most terrible thing'
Hypatia of Alexandria, c400AD
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sat 31 Jan, 2009 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| David Sutton wrote: | | Jeroen Zuiderwijk wrote: | | Huh? Are you implying that the one people bearing the name of their throwing axes did not use axes in combat? |
I think you are confusing the use of the term 'Frank' (as in ancient German tribal confederation) and the later use of the term 'Frank' (broadly meaning western continental Europeans). |
That's the same people. The Franks of the Roman period started expanding forming the Merovingian kingdom, followed by the Carolingian empire. As they expanded they included more and more different people, but it's not that you had two different groups that decided to call themselves Franks at some point.
Jeroen Zuiderwijk
- Bronze age living history in the Netherlands
- Barbarian metalworking
- Museum photos
- Zip-file with information about saxes
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sat 31 Jan, 2009 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Gavin Kisebach wrote: | I'm implying that according to Ewart Oakeshott in The Archeology of Weapons, axes fell out of favor for a period of time in continental Europe, but remained popular in Scandanavia from the bronze age to the gunpowder age.
[edit] page 257 : In the eleventh it had been regarded as rather an ungentlemanly weapon by Continental warriors; only Saxons and Scandinavians considered it fit ...
Hope that helps |
Ah, when referring to the Franks the end of the Roman period until the end of the Carolingian empire is generally considered, during which the Franks did use axes in combat in large numbers. If there's one group of people anywhere in history that's most connected to axes, then it's the Franks. So when you say that especially the Franks did not like the use of axes, that's not making much sense:)
Jeroen Zuiderwijk
- Bronze age living history in the Netherlands
- Barbarian metalworking
- Museum photos
- Zip-file with information about saxes
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David Huggins
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| Posted: Tue 03 Feb, 2009 12:34 am Post subject: Middle -Saxon sword |
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Way of thread..... but
The Fransisca, the axe commonly associated with the Franks appears to have fallen out of use amongst the The Merovingian Franks after about 600, see 'The Pace of Change; Studies in early medieval chronology' (Cardiff Studies in archaeology), and reappear to some extent during the early Carolingean period.
The fransisca appears to be used by the Englisc for a short period after it fell out of favour with their continental germanic cousins.
The Byzantines at the time of the First Crusade appear to call anyone from North Western christendom 'Franks' irrespective of where they came from, Scots English, Swedes,Germans, French etc.
best
Dave
and he who stands and sheds blood with us, shall be as a brother.
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