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G. Briggs




Location: Nebraska
Joined: 10 Sep 2008

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon 15 Sep, 2008 11:32 pm    Post subject: help with identification!         Reply with quote

I also wanted to show another sword that I have no idea what it is or where it came from or how old and need some help in identification. It is 39 1/2" and weighs approximately 2 1/2 pounds, it looks like the basket is made of nickel or something like it, the handle is leather with twisted wire. the blade is corroded and has design on the upper part. The only marks I can find is the one I will show, it is on the blade near the basket. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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Anders Backlund




Location: Sweden
Joined: 24 Oct 2007

Posts: 629

PostPosted: Tue 16 Sep, 2008 1:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, it's obviouly a British baskethilt, Scottish or possibly English. I don't know enough of this type of sword to comment more then that, but I'll add that I don't think I've ever seen this design before.

Very interesting. Hope someone more baskethilt-savvy can tell us more about it.

The sword is an ode to the strife of mankind.

"This doesn't look easy... but I bet it is!"
-Homer Simpson.
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Lin Robinson




Location: NC
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Tue 16 Sep, 2008 3:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The mark on the blade indicates it was made by Weyersberg, Kirschbaum & Cie of Solingen, Germany. They are making the Wilkinson style basket hilts currently. The construction of the basket, with that loop - for lack of a better term - where the basket joins the blade is something I have not seen before. Perhaps someone out there has more information.
Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Dave W.




Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 29 Aug 2008
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 32

PostPosted: Tue 16 Sep, 2008 2:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would agree that it is probably a Scottish basket-hilt. The thistle is a symbol of Scotland I think. It is an interesting one though. It's blade is different at the base, near the guard, from most baskit-hilts I've seen. It does seem to be of the backsword style, as opposed to the broad. Sorry I can't be more help.
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Lin Robinson




Location: NC
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PostPosted: Tue 16 Sep, 2008 2:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dave W. wrote:
I would agree that it is probably a Scottish basket-hilt. The thistle is a symbol of Scotland I think. It is an interesting one though. It's blade is different at the base, near the guard, from most baskit-hilts I've seen. It does seem to be of the backsword style, as opposed to the broad. Sorry I can't be more help.


The thistle is the symbol of Scotland, but I don't think this sword is Scottish-made. Could be but the blade is definitely a product of a German company - as were a lot of blades on basket hilt swords with Scottish connections. The photos don't give a sufficient over view to be sure, but I think that this is a broadsword, not a back sword. The configuration of the blade, from what I can see of it, seems to indicate that.

This is probably 19th century but could be later, especially if the basket is nickle-plated. I would like to see more of it.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,920

PostPosted: Tue 16 Sep, 2008 6:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The mark is of Weyersburg for sure but that family's use of it goes back at least to the 1780s. the Weyersburg and Kirschbaum association came to be in the 1880s. Previous to the 1780s, the Wundes family used various king's head marks.

I am no authority at all on baskethilts but use of German blades in England was quite common in the 18th century. Indeed, entire baskehilts were made in Germany as well. Silvered and gilt hilts well predate the 19th century. The Germans were doing a lot of nickle plate by the 1860s. The heavily etched blade would make me think later than the first quarter of the 19th century but the Weyersburg mark by itself in this context would make me consider it before the merge with Kirschbaum.

Cheers

GC
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Lin Robinson




Location: NC
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PostPosted: Tue 16 Sep, 2008 7:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Glen A Cleeton wrote:
The mark is of Weyersburg for sure but that family's use of it goes back at least to the 1780s. the Weyersburg and Kirschbaum association came to be in the 1880s. Previous to the 1780s, the Wundes family used various king's head marks.

I am no authority at all on baskethilts but use of German blades in England was quite common in the 18th century. Indeed, entire baskehilts were made in Germany as well. Silvered and gilt hilts well predate the 19th century. The Germans were doing a lot of nickle plate by the 1860s. The heavily etched blade would make me think later than the first quarter of the 19th century but the Weyersburg mark by itself in this context would make me consider it before the merge with Kirschbaum.

Cheers

GC


Thanks for shedding light on the Weyersburg & Kirschbaum association. Now that I look at my own W,K & C sword I see that both the king's head and helm are on mine and the helm and initials are missing on the subject sword. So, this surely predates the 1880s or at least the blade does. However, I doubt this blade is very much older than that and I also suspect that the hilt may be German-made as well. You mention in your post that you are aware of basket hilts made in Germany. I believe it is a late 19th c. sword made in Germany for the Scottish/British trade. But aside from that, which is speculation, I have no real clue as to what it is except that I am pretty sure it is not Scottish.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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