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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sun 03 Aug, 2008 10:33 am    Post subject: Crusade-era sword recommendations         Reply with quote

What are people's thoughts on good Crusade-era sharps? I prefer non-wheel pommels (I have enough of those Happy ), so Brazil nuts and other pommel forms are attractive. If you were in the market for a Crusade-era sword with a non-wheel pommel, what would it be?
Happy

ChadA

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Matthew D G




Location: Oklahoma, USA
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PostPosted: Sun 03 Aug, 2008 10:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would buy Albion Swords Gaddhjalt, I love the look of the Brazil nut pommel mixed with the pointed cross guard.

I've been looking for a crusader-era swords for months and I landed on the Gaddhjalt. The Templar would be my next choice for the crusader type swords.

Hope that helps Big Grin

"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend to be one of those deaf-mutes."
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Nathan Keysor




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PostPosted: Sun 03 Aug, 2008 11:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well,

Depending on what era you believe the Albion Oakeshott to be from... It's a beautiful hollow ground blade although it doesn't have the brazil nut pommel.

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
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Paul Watson




Location: Upper Hutt, New Zealand
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PostPosted: Sun 03 Aug, 2008 11:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Is the Reeve too early? If it is then I would say the Ritter. What I find visually pleasing about the Ritter is it's blade length in combination with the cocked hat pommel (which was an aquired taste) and the shape and width of the guard. They seem to perfectly compliment and balance each other. Having discussed its handling ability with someone who bought it for a family member, they said it was their favourite Albion they had handled, and the person in question said they had handled nearly all of them.
I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, but that which it protects. (Faramir, The Two Towers)
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Jason Elrod




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PostPosted: Sun 03 Aug, 2008 12:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If I was going to go early crusades then I'd have to pick something like the Xa.10 in "Records". I love spike spike hilts and have always been fond of the Type N pommel. Or I'd trade out that type N pommel for a Type P but that is just me. These are my 1st & 2nd choice.

Late crusades, I'd go for a Type XIII or XIIIa w/an S type Pommel similar to XIIIa.15 in "Records" (though this really might be a little too late in terms of style)

Plus if you are willing to wait for a custom I'd suggest Jan Chodkiewiecz http://ensifer.carbonmade.com/projects/96365#1

Wait time and prices seem reasonable and he seems to put a lot of research into his work. When I asked about a commission he not only sent me drawings of what would be the final product but he also sent the pictures of the originals that the commission was based on.
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Darrin Hughes




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PostPosted: Sun 03 Aug, 2008 12:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Chad.

If you're thinking primarily first crusade then really any of the Albion type X,Xa, or XI, swords would fit the bill. Also the St. Maurice or 12th century swords from A&A would be OK, depending on what level of ornamentation you fancy.
I'm currently looking to put together a kit that would be suitable for the period of the first or second crusade and decided to go with the Albion Reeve, purely because a Type X with a brazil-nut pommel seemed to me about as typical as you can get for the late 11th century.

D.
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R D Moore




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PostPosted: Sun 03 Aug, 2008 12:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Chad,

I'll vote for the Gaddhjalt. The time period is there and the blade appears to be something that could be effective from horseback.

Late again!! See above!
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Jared Smith




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PostPosted: Sun 03 Aug, 2008 5:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you were interested in later period crusades (4th and onward, full barrel helm, classic hollywood variety kit, etc.), I would consider something similar to the Albion Ritter (Oakeshott type XI.) It is a nice alternative to the wheel pommel, and seems plausible to have descended from earlier lobed Germanic pommel shapes. I would guess it would be very appropriate to a Teutonic knight, which if I remember it rightly, made up large portions of later crusade period forces.
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Jeremiah Swanger




Location: Central PA
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PostPosted: Sun 03 Aug, 2008 10:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jared Smith wrote:
If you were interested in later period crusades (4th and onward, full barrel helm, classic hollywood variety kit, etc.), I would consider something similar to the Albion Ritter (Oakeshott type XI.) It is a nice alternative to the wheel pommel, and seems plausible to have descended from earlier lobed Germanic pommel shapes. I would guess it would be very appropriate to a Teutonic knight, which if I remember it rightly, made up large portions of later crusade period forces.


In addition to being a nifty-looking sword, the Ritter is surprisingly-quick and handy. Even if it doesn't fall neatly in-line with what you have in mind, I have a feeling it is a sword you might thoroughly-enjoy!

"Rhaegar fought nobly.
Rhaegar fought valiantly.
Rhaegar fought honorably.
And Rhaegar died."

- G.R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire
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Jean-Carle Hudon




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PostPosted: Mon 04 Aug, 2008 7:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad, I would look again at Cervenka's offerings. I have what he calls his early gothic 12th century central europe, with the ""cocked hat"" pommel. I like it. He also has one a bit lighter with a brazil nut pommel. JCH
Bon coeur et bon bras
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Gary A. Chelette




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PostPosted: Mon 04 Aug, 2008 11:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote


DT2130 has always been my favorite. I love the feel and handling of this Del Tin.

Are you scared, Connor?
No, Cousin Dugal. I'm not!
Don't talk nonsense, man. I peed my kilt the first time I went into battle.
Oh, aye. Angus pees his kilt all the time!
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Nicolai Overgaard




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PostPosted: Mon 04 Aug, 2008 1:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My favorite has always been the other St. Maurice from Del Tin. The one with the wired hilt even though I hear its pretty heavy, I still like the looks of it. Others would be Albions Ritter and Hospitaller.[/img]
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Mon 04 Aug, 2008 2:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad,

I suggested to Peter J a while back to produce three swords named after the monarchs who participated in the Third Crusade. The suggested names were the Next Generation Lionheart, the NG Barbarossa, and the NG Augustus. My suggestion for the Barbarossa was a Type XI with a Brazil nut pommel and a Type I guard, but one that's on the longer side as is seen on some swords with Brazil nut pommels. I don't know if Peter has done anything with this idea, but it sounds just like the sort of thing you'd be looking for.

I know it isn't what you really wanted, but I think that the Senlac would be a great sword for the earlier Crusades.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Tue 05 Aug, 2008 7:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the input, guys. Happy I've thought about the Reeve. Albion doesn't list it with the Viking swords, as they do with the Gaddhjalt. I guess the guard of the Gaddhjalt makes it more "Viking." Would it really work in an early Crusade kit?
Happy

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Darrin Hughes




Location: England
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PostPosted: Tue 05 Aug, 2008 10:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello again.

I'm really glad that you asked this question, because it's made me go back and look at my own kit. I think the main thing to take into consideration is whether you are looking at something for a foot-soldier, or somebody on horse-back, or whether that isn't really an issue and you just want something which would be up to date for the end of the 11th century.
If you think about it, most of the fighting men on the First Crusade were either Norman,Frankish, or German, with maybe some Scandinavians. It is therefore likely that a fairly large cross-section of the swords associated with these people in the 50 or 60 years leading up to the First Crusade could have found there way to Jerusalem in 1099. Not everybody would have had the latest technology, and there were probably plenty of men who just prefered their older swords. After all, if you know from experience that a particular piece of kit is going to do the job, how likely are you to want to change it, just because somebody comes up with something a bit different?
This would definitely put the Gaddhjalt in the frame. Spike-hilts, in association with type X or XI blades, hung around well into the 12th century, and swords like Albion's Gaddhjalt would probably have been popular with the lads on horse-back, given the extra reach.
By the same token A&A's St. Maurice sword is another that would be well suited to fighting from horse-back and that is what has got me thinking. Whilst I really like my Reeve, and intend to keep it in my kit, it is definitely one for the foot-sloggers. To cover the horse-back angle, I'm seriously thinking of asking Craig about having a St. Maurice done without the inscriptions on the guard and pommel, as it is these which date it to beyond the First Crusade. Without them I think that the resulting sword would be ideal for a late 11th century mounted crusader.
Obviously, this is about what you want and not me. I think that you would be OK with any of these swords, or even the Del Tin mentioned above, but a type XI, like an uninscribed St. Maurice, would probably have been the most up to date of the bunch.

I hope this helps.
Darrin.
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Jeremiah Swanger




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PostPosted: Wed 06 Aug, 2008 12:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Thanks for the input, guys. Happy I've thought about the Reeve. Albion doesn't list it with the Viking swords, as they do with the Gaddhjalt. I guess the guard of the Gaddhjalt makes it more "Viking." Would it really work in an early Crusade kit?


I'm actually considering using my Stamford as part of a 1st Crusades kit.

I figure the hilt style and blade pattern were in use as late as 1066 (the Bayeaux Tapestry depicts William the Conqueror with such a sword, if I remember correctly), then seeing such a sword in the early crusades would not have been such a stretch.

It may work well if I were portraying one of the original nine Knights Templar. Using an older sword may have been in line with their policy of humility and poverty...



Noble Knight of the First Crusades: "Where did you get that sword? From your Grandfather?!?"

Knight Templar: "Umm... yeah..."

"Rhaegar fought nobly.
Rhaegar fought valiantly.
Rhaegar fought honorably.
And Rhaegar died."

- G.R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire
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Nathan Keysor




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PostPosted: Wed 06 Aug, 2008 7:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Thanks for the input, guys. Happy I've thought about the Reeve. Albion doesn't list it with the Viking swords, as they do with the Gaddhjalt. I guess the guard of the Gaddhjalt makes it more "Viking." Would it really work in an early Crusade kit?


I've wondered that too about the Gaddhjalt. It's a beautifully proportioned sword. I would appreciate you buying the one Kult of Athena has in stock so that I won't blow any more money on swords this month. Big Grin

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Wed 06 Aug, 2008 1:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you like the Gaddhjalt, I'd second what Darrin wrote. There's nothing about it's hilt furniture or blade type that wouldn't be completely consistent with a type of sword that would have seen use in the 1st, 2nd, or even 3rd Crusade. We still see reasonably clear examples of Type Xa swords at the close of the 12th century in artwork. The Brazil nut pommel would have seen use throughout the 11th and the 12th centuries, and the Gaddhjalt guard, if I'm not mistaken, is one of the longest lasting types on swords, found up even into the 15th C (look at the swords found in the armoured section of Vadi, for instance: http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/VadiNewImages/Untitled-jv3B.jpg).
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