[Dionicia R]

I was given this dagger many years ago. And I am curious about its possible history. I do not know if it is a fancy letter opener or what. Anyone have any ideas?

It would be appreciated. I hope I posted the pictures correctly.




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[B. Fulton]

No picture visible.....doesn't appear to have pasted in.

[Gabriel Lebec]

Greetings Dionicia and welcome to myArmoury.

I peeked at your post's BB code. The website you are linking from does not appear to allow direct photo links (the URLs only go to 1x1 px gif placeholders). If you save the photos directly on to your computer, and then add them to your post as an attachment, you should be able to display the photos.

If you have further trouble you may wish to browse our attachment guidelines.

Cheers,
Gabriel L.

[Dionicia R]

Thanks for the advice...they look full size when I am viewing the post. I do have a couple of pictures of this knife. Let me know and I can add them.

[Dionicia R]

I am hoping this pictures are now visible. For some reason I have to keep logging in to post, even though I have selected remember log in. Also when I browse the albums and click on to enlarge pictures, it says I have to be a member. These PC (personal confusers) can be tough at times.

Here are a couple more pictures. I know they are not good, but maybe you can see the design on the blade. There seems to be a walking bug or a fairy? Then a plant that looks like a cat-tail on the same side. The other side is very worn and has a long leaf? And a tree of life???

Now, I will try to attach some more pictures.

[Gabriel Lebec]

Hello again Dionicia,

Thanks for posting the photos directly. I replied to your PM with some ideas about why you can see the other photos and possible solutions to your difficulties in automatically logging back in.

Regarding the dagger itself... I've not seen anything quite like it, and this is not my primary area of study, but I have a good feeling that it is not "authentic" in the sense of being an actual weapon. The decorative motifs (look at that pommel!), form, and less-than-exceptional workmanship point more towards a stage/prop item or "wallhanger" (i.e. decorative non-functional) item in my humble opinion. So "fancy letter opener" may be a perfectly adequate description.

Perhaps someone else here might have a better idea of exactly what your item and its history are. In the meantime, I hope you stick around and enjoy learning more about arms and armour.

Cheers,
-GLL

[Dionicia R]

Thanks Gabriel,

I thought it was just a conversation piece or a letter opener. If it is a letter opener, in which I tried using it, it doesn't work well in that situation. What is funny is, I was given it out in the jungle of Belize by a native. It was dirt encrusted, like it had been laying in the soil for a while. It took some doing to clean it without taking off the design. Nothing was mentioned about where they got it, no story about it.....just thought I would like to have it. I also never thought of it as a weapon, but it is very sharp, lol! Yes, it is very crude workmanship, the blade tip doesn't give under pressure. The metal is very hard. Maybe it was made by someone for personal work in ceremonial ways.

Anything can be a weapon, I am laughing.

I am curious about the symbols. I believe the animal is a dog, and the round dot on the handle between the X and lines might be an eye or the sun.

It might be a mis-match of symbols, but the helmet is interesting.....an interesting conversation piece........

"Could someone refer me to a link on symbols?" Thanks

[Jean Thibodeau]

[B. Fulton]

Though not "right" the blade design does remind me of a kris from southeast asia/pacific region.

No clue about the rest.

[Dionicia R]

Thank you all for the responses so far. I do know it is well balanced. And I have tried to research on the net about types of daggers and ran across the Kris/flame dagger style. I did not to think it is a tourist invention. For it was found deep inside Belize and off the beaten path. I spent over 30 summers there and know the people well. Who really knows who dropped it, left it, made it or used it for what. Lots of cultures came into Belize, Asians, Africans, Celts, and just about everywhere else.

I did take it many years ago before a close friend of my family Rex Applegate who was quite familiar with weapons and some of you have heard of him. Rex started me off collecting daggers, just a very small personal collection. And nothing really to write about, I just enjoy them. He tested the darkest stains and it was found to be blood, what kind who knows...didn't pursue it any farther. He also said not to dismiss it and found it interesting. But, he passed away a few weeks later. It is a mystery as is with real weapons that are found and we just can not put a finger on the what, where, etc.

If someone knows an expert in history in Oregon, I would appreciate a link to them.

I forgot to add that the blade and handle are one piece and the brass head/helmet was added separately

[Jean-Carle Hudon]

Dionicia,
I was surprised by the area from which this blade comes. I have seen flamberge type blades in pagan groups, as a ritual blade. No, I am not personally involved with any such group, but I have known people who were, and I could refer them to competent blade smiths, so they presented me with prototypes they wanted to emulate. They did seem quite similar to what you have, but the Central American connection seems far removed from north american pagan groups. I don't know if you would agree, but it seems to me that the finials seem to evoke aquatic beings of some sort. Anyway, sory I can't be of help, and good luck with your research. I think you can cross letter opener off your list.
JCH

[Gabriel Lebec]

[Dionicia R]

Hi Jean,

You are not off base at all. I have found in life, certain objects just find their way into an area that is worlds away as it seems. I tend to agree it is a pagan tool of some sorts, specifically a ritual/ceremonial tool. As I remember, in todays definition of pagan, pagans came from many different continents and they traveled way before Christianity.

I do not know how open I can be on this forum as in speaking of spiritual things. I am such a newbie, but I can tell you this, aquatic beings is the right direction. As I said before there is a story behind this dagger and why I was presented it. But, I do not want anyone to be colored so-to-speak about what I know about it.

I am seeking like kind symbols and style of dagger to better understand. It was made/designed with a purpose. And I totally agree the craftsmanship is not very good. But, there was an intent behind it as in all weapons and ceremonial objects.

As always, thanks for responding.....

[Dionicia R]

Hi Gabriel,

A friend of mine thought it was a lion! I don't think you have a lack of perception. If there is one thing I have learned is, that everyones perception is different. Shoot, I thought it was a Rhino!

[Brad Harada]

Jean-Carle beat me to it. My first thought was: it's an athame! I've seen one that was quite similar (though not quite as ornate as the one pictured). From what I can remember, it had that same sort of flambard-type blade, though the guard was rather plain (a simple down turned cross style) as was the grip, which I recall being plain wood. I'm pretty sure that both the blade and grip were engraved (or etched?) with ritualistic symbols. I'd imagine that a practitioner of Wicca could probably tell you more about athames and the like.

[Christopher Gregg]

A traditional athame is supposed to have a black-colored handle, a double-edged straight iron blade, and certain magical symbols (taken from the book, the Key of Solomon) ingraved on the hilt. Although several manufacturers sell wavy-bladed daggers and other fantasy knives to the Neo-wicca and Neo-pagan markets, they are not athames by a traditional standard. As this knife is probably of South American manufacture, and certainly hand made, I doubt it would have been made to be an athame, especially since Wicca is a 20th Century English/American invention, anyway.

BTW, although I'm not a Wiccan, I have studied Western Occultism and various Neo-pagan traditions for 20 years or so, along with weapons history, which is my greater interest. I had a girlfriend who was a Traditional Wiccan High Priestess back in the early '90's.

[Dionicia R]

Hi Brad and Chrisopher,

Thanks for responding. I am hoping that someone will recognize the symbols and this will lead us closer to the identification. I have taken it to a couple of witches, they do not liked to be called wiccan. Anyway, they would not pick it up to examine it. But felt no negativity from it. All they said is, 'it came to you and you to it'. The mystery continues....

There is going to be a National Celt Festival here this summer and people from around the world we be there. And I am sure there will be blade smiths there. "Is that the correct name?" I do not want to offend someone.

[Christopher Gregg]

Dionicia,

Yes, blade smith is the correct term for one who makes knives. And sorry to correct myself, but I meant that the knife was probably Central American, not South (although it's only a guess - you DID say you were given it in Belize?). I'm not sure if the designs were intended to be symbolic of anything, or ritualistic in any way. Perhaps the maker just liked the design? Some of it's overall look could be Mexican, or South East Asian, or even Indian, in a way. It truly is a mystery! In any case, it's a really neat piece, and you should treasure it if for no other reason than it invokes a big question mark. Sometimes the best things in life are those we CANNOT explain.

[Dionicia R]

Christopher,

Yes, it was found in the ground in Belize way off a beaten path. I was there when it happened. I do treasure it for it was given to me for a reason.

I forgot to mention I measured it. Blade 5 inches, handle 3 inches.

[Victor Lavenstein]

This is going to sound strange, but the piece reminds me of Jean Cocteau's Academie Francaise court sword.
It looks like a letter opener with that post-cubist moderne style...

Victor