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Jean Thibodeau
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 Posted: Sun 08 Jun, 2008 1:54 am Post subject: Purchase: Valiant Armoury Atrim Blunted Long Sword |
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Saw this today on Kult of Athena as being in stock and the price is right and I'm at the point where I need a steel blunt for my longsword classes: So I guess I'll be able to compare how it holds up against an Albion Liechtenauer that someone has as far as nicks and dents are concerned and compare handling.
Doesn't hurt that I like the look of it.  
http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~AT30...+Sword.htm
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Hugo Voisine
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| Posted: Sun 08 Jun, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: |
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Strangely, the blade doesn't seem very "blunt" if you look at this picture...
http://www.kultofathena.com/images/AT302B_5_l.jpg
I wonder if the pictures aren't from the "sharp" model...
Anyway, make sure to post your impressions if you get one... 
« Que dites-vous ?... C'est inutile ?... Je le sais !
Mais on ne se bat pas dans l'espoir du succès !
Oh ! non, c'est bien plus beau lorsque c'est inutile ! »
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Sun 08 Jun, 2008 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| Hugo Voisine wrote: | Strangely, the blade doesn't seem very "blunt" if you look at this picture...
http://www.kultofathena.com/images/AT302B_5_l.jpg
I wonder if the pictures aren't from the "sharp" model...
Anyway, make sure to post your impressions if you get one... |
Hard to tell because of the angle of that close up but the close up of the tip shows a very rounded profile.
How, thick are the edges I guess I will find out as I have bought one and should have it in a week to 10 days.  Our group uses a few Albion Squire line Knightly Swords without problems and the edges although not sharp are not as rounded and thick as the Maestro line swords which some have upgraded to.
There is a wide mix of blunt swords being used according to pocket book and availability at the time they where purchased: The cheaper swords do end up with some fairly dramatic notches and dings that are filed and sanded out before each practice. The Albion swords almost look new after heavy use if one doesn't look too closely and only have very light dimpling of edges and handling is night and day better compared to the clunky cheap ones.
Wider and thicker edge geometry is probably safer but we depend a great deal on using lots of control and injuries since I have been there have been " NIL " and the worse I've seen or heard about has been a sprained wrist and an incidental knee dislocation that wasn't directly attributable to the actual training i.e. could have happened just walking and stepping into a hole in the sidewalk.
So unless the blade geometry of this training sword is only a few passes of a hone from being sharp it should be O.K.
A plus for this sword is that it comes with a scabbard and looks attractive, so it could be worn in public where a sharp might cause " problem " or fearful looks.
Oh, and it is possible that the angled pic came from the sharp but the others look like they are from the blunt I think.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Mike Arledge
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| Posted: Sun 08 Jun, 2008 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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When I asked Ryan on Thursday if he had any sharps, he said no, so I would bank on this being one of the blunts.
Mike J Arledge
The Dude Abides
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Sun 08 Jun, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike Arledge wrote: | | When I asked Ryan on Thursday if he had any sharps, he said no, so I would bank on this being one of the blunts. |
Oh, I'm not worried that it's a sharp but the pics don't show the actual edge thickness so I guess Hugo was just " Wondering " I guess.
The sword " blunt " looks very attractive and at a glance could be confused with a sharp: One reason why I was motivated to buy it. Some blunts probably look much more like training swords, and assuming that looks are deceptive and that the edges are nice and safe ( relatively safe ) and that it's a good design for a blunt ( with AT's design imput I would think so ) I think I should be pleased with it. In any case I should be able to report on it when I get it.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Tue 10 Jun, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Update: Ordered it early Sunday morning like 3:00 a.m. and today at 12:11 P.M. received the tracking number and it has been shipped by Kult of Athena.
Good customer service like this deserves a " PLUG " and this is it. And this is the third or fourth time I have ordered from KoA and the service has been consistently good like this every time.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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William Goodwin
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| Posted: Tue 10 Jun, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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Look forward to hearing more about it once arrived.
And yes...KOA have great cust. service. I ordered my last sword from them and was quite chuffed about the
service & the sword.
Roanoke Sword Guilde
roanokeswordguilde@live.com
"I was born for this" - Joan of Arc
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Thu 19 Jun, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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The blunt just arrived today this afternoon and here are some initial impressions but a true evaluation should wait after I have shown it to my longsword instructor and used it a few times to see how it holds up to contact with other blunts of varying quality.
The edges or the blunted edges seem to be about 1mm thick over most of the length of the blade and close to 2 mm near the point. The edge is also square in section as received.
The hardness of the blade seems to be in the 52 R.C. range as I think is advertised: A new file hardly bites the steel.
Using a diamond hone I sort of broke and rounded the corners very lightly: I assume that in use and maintenance this rounding should become more " round " as small nicks or dings are removed after use. I also assume that at the hardness of the steel this should be minimal.
The finish of the blunt is very nice, almost of " Albion " quality and from 5 feet away it almost doesn't look like a blunt: Very handsome looking and the only clue is that the point is very rounded.
The scabbard is also very nice and functional although I'm not sure if the covering is real leather or PVC ??? Just doesn't smell or feel 100% like leather but I could be wrong ? At the price, a very small issue.
I couldn't dismantle it completely to see what the tang looks like as the grip seems to fit very tightly and I just didn't want to force it loose. Fit of guard seem good but the pommel rotates about 10 degrees even when screwed down tightly because the rectangular keyholing that fits over the rectangular end of the tang is a bit to wide and long.
Now since this is a training piece and not a high end collectable this is acceptable because I found a quick and easy fix to the problem: I just cut a narrow piece of duct tape and wrapped the end of the tang and now the pommel barely moves. So an easy fix, but for the sake of an honest review I had to mention it.
Note: From other posts by Angus I think that these are an early production run and this problem may be fixed in later or even current production. Oh, I think that Angus has fixed a bunch of these and reground the edges to be thicker, I think mine is of the first batch that didn't get some of Gus's personal attention. Just keep in mind that this blunt cost a lot less than an Albion. Oh, our training group puts a lot of emphasis on " control " for safety and the thinner edge shouldn't be a problem as we use Albion squire line swords safely.
Just waving it in the air I can say that handling seems good but I will ask my instructor for his opinion on this as well as having an Albion blunt that I can compare it to in class: Handling & durability.
Oh, it is lighter than my AT 1435 but then that is probably the heaviest AT model ever made.
Assuming no problems show up in use I would say that I'm happy with it.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Steven H
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| Posted: Thu 19 Jun, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Jean-
Thanks for the info. How far does it bend? Could you take a pic?
Thanks,
Steven
Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Thu 19 Jun, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Steven H wrote: | Jean-
Thanks for the info. How far does it bend? Could you take a pic?
Thanks,
Steven |
I haven't forced it to see how far I can bend it as I generally think that this is bad for the blade if done too aggressively or repeatedly but I did put a little pressure on it and it's far from whippy and is as stiff as a sharp: This may or may not be what one wants in a blunt I'm not sure and it may depend on one's training style i.e. using good control and avoiding contact except the very lightest. I tend to like a sword that matches the flexibility of a sharp when it comes to parries or windings. ( Or at least it seems that way with my limited experience with steel blunts ).
Angus should chime in here as I read on another Forum that the one's he fixed are now lighter and might be more flexible.
I think the next production runs might be different from the first ? ( I sort of like mine as it matches some of my heavier swords in handling like my AT 1435 better than a lighter version would. Lighter and more flexible might be safer to use ? )
Link: http://www.newyorklongsword.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=674
Yeah, I have to eventually break-down and learn to use a digital camera !  I know how to use a old style film camera very well and I think it just a case of not liking the badly written instruction manuals and putting it off to tomorrow.  
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Steven H
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| Posted: Fri 20 Jun, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: |
I haven't forced it to see how far I can bend it as I generally think that this is bad for the blade if done too aggressively or repeatedly but I did put a little pressure on it and it's far from whippy and is as stiff as a sharp:
<snip> Lighter and more flexible might be safer to use ? )
Link: http://www.newyorklongsword.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=674
Yeah, I have to eventually break-down and learn to use a digital camera ! I know how to use a old style film camera very well and I think it just a case of not liking the badly written instruction manuals and putting it off to tomorrow. |
<sigh> Stiff as a sharp is not what I wanted to hear, but it's important to know. Thanks. I hope the newer ones are more flexible. The flexibility makes them safer on the thrust but doesn't really help with cuts. Proper control is easier with cuts than thrusts so thrust safety is a bigger deal to me.
Good luck with the camera
Cheers,
Steven
Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Fri 20 Jun, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| Steven H wrote: | [
<sigh> Stiff as a sharp is not what I wanted to hear, but it's important to know. Thanks. I hope the newer ones are more flexible. The flexibility makes them safer on the thrust but doesn't really help with cuts. Proper control is easier with cuts than thrusts so thrust safety is a bigger deal to me.
Cheers,
Steven |
We are very careful to avoid contact with thrusts but errors can happen so we do wear fencing masks and sometimes a gambison just in case.
The thing is that having the protective gear doesn't mean that we consider it O.K. to make contact so that when contact happens it's mostly very light: The danger is when light contact becomes the norm and then light becomes heavier and heavier contact when the " Blood " gets " HOT " ( Adrenaline rush ). We are VERY careful about " Control".
Groups tending toward more protection and more " full contact " styles of training may find this blunt a little too stiff ?
( Again, this may be only true for the first production run ? ).
After my next raining session I should also have the opinion of my teacher and some opinions based on using it.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Tue 24 Jun, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I took it to class and what I was afraid of but was sort of hoping wouldn't be the case is that the edges are too narrow to be safe considering the minimal amount of protective gear that we usually use.
I have a few options:
1) Sending it back because it won't work for me as is for classes or sparring. ( Don't want to send it back because I like it and can put it to other uses like costume use when wearing a sharp might be a legal or social problem ).
2) I could remove a lot of material ( Width ) and make the edges much thicker. ( Except that I like the look of it as it is ).
3) Patrick, my instructor, said that I could sharpen it and use it as an inexpensive test cutting sword I wouldn't have to worry about marring the finish like I would one of my " Expensive " swords. ( An option I might consider later but I already have many sharps and with soft targets like pumpkins or melons even a dull but narrow blade like this will cut well. as I saw last year when I went to a cutting party ....... all the blunts could cut well if one used good edge alignment ).
In conclusion and for those who might want to buy this one I would say that it compares to the Albion Squire line in usage rather than as a safe training blunt like the Maestro line. The quality and look is very good. I wouldn't hesitate buying the " SHARP " Valiant armoury ATs assuming the same quality of materials.
Finally a lot depends on what future productions runs will be like if corrected to have safer thicker edges: I hope that Angus will comment on this and confirm what will be different with the later production runs as I really don't want to " rain on his parade " here, and wish him well with this project. I also have to give an accurate picture to prospective buyers of at least this production run in my opinion.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Hugo Voisine
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| Posted: Wed 25 Jun, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the review Jean...
I really hope that the reworked version of the blunt will feature thicker edges, a lot of people I know can't afford an Albion, but at the current price I was hoping to be able to recommand the new Valiant line to my fellow students...
Got to ask Gus about this...
« Que dites-vous ?... C'est inutile ?... Je le sais !
Mais on ne se bat pas dans l'espoir du succès !
Oh ! non, c'est bien plus beau lorsque c'est inutile ! »
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