[Kim Jansson]

Has anyone seen something simmilar to this "Bauernwehr" ( Ritterlicher Dolch)
from herman historica, and how accurate might the info on thier site be?

Link to site

Looks somewhat simmilar to this dagger :

from this site
How common was it to have a pommel like this on a dagger?
Only other simmilar reference is this picture (its a messer but somewhat simmilar pommel) (Rogier van der Weyden, 1450's)
Grateful for anny insights on this type of daggers.
/Kim

[Danny Grigg]

The top dagger looks like a Burgundian Dagger.

I believe these 3 links are of Burgundian Daggers:


http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/displayimage....mp;pos=181
http://www.quaero-et-adamo.com/english/antique_daggers.htm
http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/hhm51...at51_p.txt

I would post pics from the book "Daggers And Fighting Knives of the Western World" by Harold L. Peterson, however it appears I have reached my 10 MEG upload limit, so I can't post them. Perhaps some one else can post the pics from the book.

Of course I'm no expert, just a novice, so I could be wrong.

Danny

[Peter Grassmann]

That's no Bauernwehr!
I wouldn't even give it a name. There were many "sword-like" daggers in the 14th and 15th century, and this is one of them. Burgund could be correct.

Peter

[Ivo Malz]

I' d even go so far as to say the first is a cobbled- up forgery combining a knife/ Bauernwehr blade with an associated pommel and crossguard.
Usually knives had small bolsters, the wood of the handle riveted on a full width tang , and a cap- shaped pommel, if there was any pommel at all.
Daggers with a regular pommel and quillons usually had thin tangs that were wrapped in the wood of the grip, just like on a contemporary sword.
I have never come across a knife with pommel and crossguard that had a pierced, full- width tang with a riveted handle.

Ivo

[Craig Johnson]

This style of dagger construction is seen in several examples from this period. It is not always recognized in art as well as the grip may well have been covered with cloth or other material.

As to the descriptions in auctions, it is always good to take care and research material like this as opposed to using it as primary information. Auction houses are trying to entice as much demand for an item as possible. Their main goal is to sell the piece in competitive bidding and not give historically constructive descriptions. The fine photographs from auctions give us a chance to see more examples of items than would be possible otherwise, but sadly most items of this type in auctions have lost their originating context and that detracts from the value of it historical content.

Best
Craig

[Fabrice Cognot]

Looks like a XIVth cent. Bunrgundian/heralidic hollow-pommelled dagger to me. The blade looks quite long-ish though. But the down-turned guard ends and rivet holes could mark it as an South-Eastern Burgundian/Northern Alps/Jura artifact. You'll see similar things in the Geneva museum, albeit shorter. Such things have been found in the Saône river down to Trévoux, and appear to be a typical (and yet quite widespread) local form.

I second Craig's comments. Pics are good, words are to be taken with a pinch of salt.

[Danny Grigg]

Fabrice, would you say the 3 links I gave are Burgundian Daggers as well?

Thanks

Danny

[Kim Jansson]

Thanks for the great info, sorry about the late reply. "Ritterlicher Dolch" could be translated as knightly dagger if I´m not mistaken. Here is some more pictures of the second dagger Danny posted.

Several years ago I started to make a dagger with the first dagger I posted as inspiration(the onlys source), well I have the blade and the pommel. Now I really don´t know what to do whit it, any suggestions? Im not interested in a replica just something in a general style with simmilar daggers.
The blade is not finished, the pommel is cast in bronze.


Danny I can post the immages if you send the pictures to my email.

Kim

[Fabrice Cognot]

[Danny Grigg]

Here's a pic of some Burgundian Daggers from the Musee d'Armee (Invalides, Paris, France):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25639089@N08/247...970575134/

Enjoy

Danny