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Brent Thacker
Location: Dayton, Ohio Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 11
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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 Posted: Sat 14 Jun, 2008 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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In my opinion, there is no such thing as an "all around sword". I'm not even sure what that means, to be honest. The best thing to do is create a list of criteria for what you want, and then look at each product one at a time and compare it to the list.
Regarding the knife linked at the end of the post: it is terrible, in my opinion. Unattractive. Stainless steel. Bulky ill-shaped brass fittings. Doesn't really represent anything from history that I recognize. All around, it's horrible.
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Al Muckart
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| Posted: Sun 15 Jun, 2008 4:43 am Post subject: Re: Good all around sword under $225? |
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Hi Brent,
I apologise if any of this comes across harshly, none of it is intended as such, it is just often difficult to correct deeply (and very commonly) held misconceptions without sounding overly negative.
| Brent Thacker wrote: | | Which would be the best all around sword? |
That's really an unsanswerable question. Swords are fundamentally historical objects that can't be considered without some knowlege of the historical circumstances surrounding their design and use.
Swords have been in existence in various forms for many thousands of years and their forms have changed over that time in response to the materials technologies, styles of warfare, armour and the fashions of the times and places they existed. None of them can be considered in isolation, and you can't meaningfully compare them to determine which one is "best" in any sense. The same applies to trying to find an "all-round" sword, there really isn't such a thing.
The only meaningful way to evaluate a type of sword is in the context of it's suitability to the combat environment of it's situation. There are meaningful critieria by which we can judge an individual sword - quality of craftsmanship, dynamic handling properties, aesthetic appeal etc but even then it isn't always meaningful to use the same criteria across all swords you come across.
The same applies to the swords you linked to, there can't be a "best all round sword" among them because you can't really ever pick such a thing. The only way to pick a sword is to establish a set of criteria for what you want, read a bunch, handle as many as you can, and buy the one that most closely matches the criteria you have established.
Do be aware that swords are not cheap things to make even half-decently. They are surprisingly complicated objects both in manufacture and in use. This doesn't mean you have to spend a thousand dollars on one, but it does mean that at the lower end good ones are quite rare and there is an awful lot of junk in the $100 - $500 price range. For someone shopping in that price range, finding the good ones inamongst all the junk can be really hard. If you ask for an opinion of something and people tell you it's junk, it's not because they're trying to be mean, or because they're being snobs, it's most likely because it genuinely is junk and not worth wasting money on.
Don't take it personally, nobody was born knowing about this stuff and we've all of us had to learn it. My entire conception of what a sword looked and felt like changed in an instant the first time I picked up a really well designed and made blade and I've never looked at them the same since. It's a great experience, but not one that is necessarily easy on the wallet  I have a collection of one (about to be two after some time) nice swords, one nicely made medieval knife (an upgrade from a less accurate/well-made medieval knife), and a half complete bollock dagger I'm making, and all that has taken some time to acquire.
As a generalisation I'd also say it's best to avoid reading about lower end and midrange swords on the same sites that sell them. Those sites are there to sell you things, and many of them will claim pretty much anything in an attempt to get you to buy their wares without any consideration of accuracy. High end manufacturers tend to sell into a much smaller and more knowlegable market and rely to a large extent on reputation rather than hype to sell their kit.
There are a lot of reviews here that should give you a good feel for what makes a quality sword. A lot of the reviews are of swords in the upper end of the market, but by no means all of them are and reading about swords in the higher end of the market is a good way to get an understanding of what quality looks like. I would strongly recommend going through and reading *every* review on this site, as well as as many of the spotlight topics and features as you can. It'll take a while but it should be interesting.
It bears all of the hallmarks of a very low-quality piece.
Firstly, the entire site it is sold on is filled with items billed as being "medieval" that are nothing even remotely like anything seen in medieval times. In terms of medieval things, shoes are what I know really well, and the shoes on those sites not only make me cringe but make me deeply suspicious of everything else the site sells. Sites like that really really bug me because they deliberately sell to the common misconceptions about what historical clothing and gear looks like, and by doing so and marketing their stuff as "medieval" they reinforce those misconceptions, to the detriment both of the reenactment community and the field of medieval study in general. Sorry, rant over.
As for the piece itself; it bears a number of hallmarks of a very low-quality knife to the experienced eye. It has a very highly polished, and probably lacquered, stainless steel blade, chunky and somewhat ill-defined brass furniture (again, very bright and probably lacquered), and a plain wooden handle. It is also -- and this is something else that's hard to say without coming across as a snob -- unrealistically cheap. You just can't buy a decent knife for that kind of money in this day and age. Quality costs, not always a huge amount, but more than a tenner.
All of those are classic warning signs of a shiny but essentially useless piece. It is also impractically large and misdesigned for it's stated purpose, being two to three times the size of a useful eating knife and double edged -- a feature almost if not totally unique to blades designed for killing things that's quite impractical on utility knives. The knife I eat with has a roughly four inch single edged blade and is not dissimilar to this one in style: http://www.revival.us/index.asp?PageAction=VI...ProdID=309
To an eye that knows what medieval knives actually look like (something that takes some study but not a huge amount) it is also totally wrong in style and form, being pretty much completely modern in style. A lot can be learned about what medieval knives really looked like by reading articles on sites like this, finding out who the good makers are that have websites and spending some time looking through those sites. A couple to get you started are [url]/http://www.todsstuff.co.uk/knives.php[url] and http://www.revival.us,
That was long, and mostly rather negative, for which I apologise, but I hope it was in some way useful and that you aren't put off by it. There is good stuff out there that doesn't cost a fortune, that looks good and works well, it just takes some practice and learning to spot, and admittedly perhaps a bit of internally redefining what you think "good" looks like It's an odd thing about the genre that it can actually be easier to find reasonably priced quality accurate kit than reasonably priced quality fantasy kit because so much of the fantasy kit is built purely for looks and without any consideration for function.
--
Al.
http://wherearetheelves.net
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Anders Backlund
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| Posted: Sun 15 Jun, 2008 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Good all around sword under $225? |
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| Brent Thacker wrote: | | Which would be the best all around sword? |
Depends on what you mean. Best all around as in "best quality of sword in relevance to the price" or "best weapon to bring along to an actual battle"?
Oh, and I'm not sure if you've noticed but Sword Buyer's Guide who review the Warspike you linked to also reviews the Windlass 15th Century Longsword, Archer's Falchion, German Bastard Sword and the Generation 2 Norman Sword. So, if it's a question of quality you can always compare their verdicts of those swords.
The sword is an ode to the strife of mankind.
"This doesn't look easy... but I bet it is!"
-Homer Simpson.
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Luka Borscak
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| Posted: Mon 16 Jun, 2008 5:52 am Post subject: |
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I had Windlass 15th century longsword and Gen2 12th century Norman.
Gen2 was had a bad heat treatment and it bent easily but I liked the sword and I would be quite happy with it if it was tempered well. It cuts very good, it's stiff enough, a bit heavy for one handed use but the handle is long enough for two hands so I used it that way. It has some of details that are not historical and may be an esthetic problem. But if you get a well made, well tempered one you'll have a great durable cutter, and if you are a bit bigger and stronger person, you won't have problems with one handed use also. (I'm a small guy  ) If you buy it, be sure it has a good returning policy...
Windlass 15th century longsword is a well balanced sword, quite light and very fast when used with both hands but it can be used with one hand. It is a bit too whipy for thrusting but it is a pretty good cutter. The one that I had was also very durable, fittings remained tight as long as I had it.
The Windlass German Bastard sword is a very good sword. I just handled it at the store but it is a fast, well balanced sword, not very light but you don't really feel the high weight, very stiff. I just wish it was a bit longer.
I also handled that Windlass war sword very briefly, I didn't like the feel of the handle and it was a bit too wheepy even for a pure cutting sword. But for the price, not that bad.
I haven't handled any other sword you mentioned.
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