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Stu C
Location: Western Australia Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 46
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 Posted: Thu 12 Jun, 2008 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: | | Stu C wrote: |
Actually, on the lowlander variants the terminals are pretty much dead accurate to the originals (have pictures of the original swords and compared). On the Wallace, the overall dimensions/proportions of the hilt are very accurate (but without the distortions due to wear and tear), but the terminals are - as you point out - significantly larger and more angular. Artistic license, I guess (same as the style of leather work differs from the real thing). I also suspect there is a bit of manufacturing variation, because I have a picture of another Yeudall Wallace where the terminals seem a little less pronounced.
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I think we're confusing terminology. Terminals are the ends of the quillons in my book. Ferrules are metal bands at either end of the grip. |
Ahhh, yes, my mistake (sorry) - not sure why I was thinking 'terminals' when you quite clearly wrote 'ferrules'. I can only give the excuse that I am an amateur at this sword collectin' lark  In which case, I agree with you 100%. I think that the ferrules/bands would indeed benefit from being smaller, and in fact I do remember that was one of the things that originally stood out to me when I was doing my homework before buying it. In the end I decided that the overall look worked for me, so it wasn't too much of a drama.
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Thu 12 Jun, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Stu C wrote: | | Ahhh, yes, my mistake (sorry) - not sure why I was thinking 'terminals' when you quite clearly wrote 'ferrules'. I can only give the excuse that I am an amateur at this sword collectin' lark In which case, I agree with you 100%. I think that the ferrules/bands would indeed benefit from being smaller, and in fact I do remember that was one of the things that originally stood out to me when I was doing my homework before buying it. In the end I decided that the overall look worked for me, so it wasn't too much of a drama. |
I think the ferrules are unnecessary and detract from the look. Not to mention they're not present at all on the "original" Wallace sword.
For more info on the Wallace sword, see here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=5457
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Stu C
Location: Western Australia Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Thu 12 Jun, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: | | Stu C wrote: | | Ahhh, yes, my mistake (sorry) - not sure why I was thinking 'terminals' when you quite clearly wrote 'ferrules'. I can only give the excuse that I am an amateur at this sword collectin' lark In which case, I agree with you 100%. I think that the ferrules/bands would indeed benefit from being smaller, and in fact I do remember that was one of the things that originally stood out to me when I was doing my homework before buying it. In the end I decided that the overall look worked for me, so it wasn't too much of a drama. |
I think the ferrules are unnecessary and detract from the look. Not to mention they're not present at all on the "original" Wallace sword.
For more info on the Wallace sword, see here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=5457 |
I suspect they are necessary in some form to facilitate the use of a grip made from a long wrapped strip of leather, rather than a single piece of leather stitched from top to bottom along the length of the grip (as per the original Wallace). The leather strip needs a way of being terminated cleanly top and bottom, and it does so under the ferrules. This seems to be a characteristic of all of Yeudall's swords (although on some of them the strip of leather also has a length of wire running along the surface). I personally much prefer the 'strip of leather' grip than the original, so it's an acceptable compromise in terms of historical accuracy (for me). The way I look at it, there are very few swords on the market that aren't 'interpretations of a style' to some degree. In this case, the ferules are a detraction, but the grip itself is an improvement, so there is a balance in there somewhere. These swords are all made by commission, so I imagine there is quite possibly scope to have Thomas tweak the design.
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Stu C
Location: Western Australia Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Sun 15 Jun, 2008 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: | | It's too bad they put those chunky metal ferrules on the Wallace sword and the Lowlander sword. |
I had a quick look through my (admittedly rather limited) book collection and discovered that plate 10 of "Scottish Swords and Dirks" (John Wallace, 1970, Arms & Armour Press) clearly shows a Lowland Sword, described as being a "fine example", with ferrules that very closely match the size and style that Yeudall uses on his Lowland variants. So I guess that in the 16th century, like today, it was also just a matter of personal taste...
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sun 15 Jun, 2008 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| Stu C wrote: | | I had a quick look through my (admittedly rather limited) book collection and discovered that plate 10 of "Scottish Swords and Dirks" (John Wallace, 1970, Arms & Armour Press) clearly shows a Lowland Sword, described as being a "fine example", with ferrules that very closely match the size and style that Yeudall uses on his Lowland variants. So I guess that in the 16th century, like today, it was also just a matter of personal taste... |
That still doesn't explain why they're used on the Wallace sword. Anyway, ferrules are historical in some cases (never said they weren't), but some modern makers use them to cover ahistorical assemblies or throw them on swords where they clearly don't belong. So perhaps I just don't like them, because in my mind, there's a negative association with their use in some modern repros. So I guess it just isn't my personal taste.
I have a sword with a spiral leather strip binding on the grip and the maker didn't need ferrules to keep it all together. There are ways to secure it without adding chunks of metal.
We probably won't agree on this one, Stu, and that's okay. I think his use of ferrules on the Lowlander is not out of line historically, but the execution of them looks overly modern to me. That's just personal opinion/taste. I think his use of them on the Wallace sword is questionable since the current edition of the original Wallace sword's hilt doesn't have them. Or course, the current hilt is at least the third hilt placed on that sword, if I recall correctly, so we may never know for sure how it may have looked at one point or another before it was last hilted.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Stu C
Location: Western Australia Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Sun 15 Jun, 2008 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: |
That still doesn't explain why they're used on the Wallace sword. Anyway, ferrules are historical in some cases (never said they weren't), but some modern makers use them to cover ahistorical assemblies or throw them on swords where they clearly don't belong. So perhaps I just don't like them, because in my mind, there's a negative association with their use in some modern repros. So I guess it just isn't my personal taste, especially on swords where the original didn't have them (the Wallace sword).
I have a sword with a spiral leather strip binding on the grip and the maker didn't need ferrules to keep it all together. There are ways to secure it without adding chunks of metal. |
Unfortunately, they all have peened tangs, so I can't easily disassemble any of them to determine if there are any of your suspected 'ahistorical assemblies' lurking underneath. It will, I suspect, remain a mystery
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sun 15 Jun, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| Stu C wrote: | | Unfortunately, they all have peened tangs, so I can't easily disassemble any of them to determine if there are any of your suspected 'ahistorical assemblies' lurking underneath. It will, I suspect, remain a mystery |
I was editing my last post as you were replying, so it may be helpful to check that post out again. I didn't say he was covering an ahistorical assembly, just that I've seen it used by others for that purpose, creating a negative association for me. I do think they're overly modern looking, but that's personal opinion and preference.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Chris Artman
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| Posted: Tue 17 Jun, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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I just got an email from Thomas Y...
I am going to put a deposit down on a Landshneckte as well as the Lowlander (probably the 75 incher-depending on the blade differences between the wallace and the 75 incher). I did question his use of ferrules and sked him why he chose to use them... I'll let you know his response.
I really like his landsneckte swords, they are far more detailed than anyone else I have seen.
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Stu C
Location: Western Australia Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Tue 17 Jun, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Artman wrote: | I just got an email from Thomas Y...
I am going to put a deposit down on a Landshneckte as well as the Lowlander (probably the 75 incher-depending on the blade differences between the wallace and the 75 incher). I did question his use of ferrules and sked him why he chose to use them... I'll let you know his response.
I really like his landsneckte swords, they are far more detailed than anyone else I have seen. |
Looking forward to seeing pictures of your Landsnecht at the end of the year! He's going to be a busy man making oversize swords, methinks - One of my friends here in Oz just put a deposit down on the 75" lowlander this week. I'll definitely be interested to hear what Thomas says when he gets back to you about his decision to go with the ferrules.
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