[Bill Tsafa]

[Randall Pleasant]

[Michael Edelson]

I would like at this time to mention that the entry cut...the one supposed to be done in true times...is not the only cut that matters...in fact it matters less, because it is not very likely to succeed. What it does is safely gets you into the bind, in the vor, where the real action begins.

Once in krieg, true times are irrelevant, and cuts do have to be powerful. Your targets are often not on the head, but on areas of the body which would have, historically speaking, been protected by multiple layers of wool. Although you can still strike the relatively unprotected head (ever seen some of those hats they wore??), you should not count on it and need to develop technique powerful enough to do the trick.

In Krieg, it's all time of the hand, but the sword is not often positioned optimally, so things like cocking back, bringing it around, etc. are often required. A good example is abnemen (taking off)...you are displaced with strength, your opponent overcommits...so you bring your sword up over his and strike his head....a form of cocking back. EDIT: That is not to say that economy of motion is not paramount....but it has to be balanced with the power required to get the job done.

I had a mental disconnect during this cutting session and forgot that very thing...what I should have done is either launched a true time cut without expectation of severing and then followed it up with a real cut to sever the mat, or started in langenort with the right foot forward, such as you would be after launching an oberhau in true times.

This should be the focus of test cutting, not the entry cut. I think you can count the number of people in HEMA who can sever a double mat in true times on the fingers of your hand, so the average practicioner shouldn't count on it.

[Greg Mele]

[Christian Henry Tobler]

Agreed Greg - and if you can do a half-cut with enough power to cut a double mat, you're surely doing fine. Although, I think a Zornhau struck in the Vor might be a full cut, depending.

But even if your intent is to perform a full cut, if you hit someone in the head, it's not going to follow through all the way down - cleaving cleanly through someone's head is not very likely, after all. Instead the sword is likely to stop in a very gory, messy version of Langenort.

Should a Zornhau used as an attack be practiced as a full cut? I'm inclined to think so, but would be interested to hear your view on that.

Best,

CHT

[Greg Mele]

I think you're right, the Zornhau, used in the Vor *can* be a full cut, but I also think the only danger here is that this mean if you miss you're going to recover to Wechsel/Nebenhut and play up from there. The reason I mention this is that if he binds, you seem to be setting yourself up for the "buffalo/colpo di villano".

I certainly advocate full cuts, in their time and place. They work brilliantly when you are stepping offline and counterattacking, when you are in a low guard, or when you want to break an attack and bear it to the ground. I just think that we have two extremes with modern swordman - tapping and batting for the fences. The latter is what we usually see people do when they test-cut - too much tension, too much force, and no sense of focus. If you cut to langenort you are focusing half-way through a head-sized target. Sadly for said target, you'll make contact about four inches sooner. The sword does the rest.

[Christian Henry Tobler]

I agree with all of that.

The reason I mentioned the full cut for the Zornhau is Meyer's cutting diagram, and his discussion of the guard that the blow goes through. But then, he isn't going to poke your eye out from the bind!

Best,

CHT

[Greg Mele]

No, and of course, Meyer is discussing blows and guard transitions the way the 16th century Italians do too. A "sgualembratto" follows the same blow course as the Zornhau, from a high guard on the right to a low guard on the left. The half-cut is just that - half of the blow - and manifests for a tactical reason.

[Michael Edelson]

[Greg Mele]

[Michael Edelson]