| Author |
Message |
|
Chris Olsen
Location: Saint Paul Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 54
|
 Posted: Mon 19 May, 2008 7:30 am Post subject: putting a fuller in a finished blade |
 |
|
I am wondering what might happen if I were to grind a fuller into a finished 5160 steel blade? lets prettend I have access to the appropriate tools to do it.
would I be looking for a lot more trouble than it's worth?
would I potentially destroy the temper?
I am just looking for some outside guidance before i do something really stupid to a 650 dollar sword.
the piece and by extension the blade come from a reputable maker in the US.
thanks
chris
P.S. I want to do the work for mostly cosmetic reasons.
|
|
   |
 |
|
Justin King
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Mon 19 May, 2008 7:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
It can be done but it is not without risks, too much heat will over- temper it so the blade has to be kept cool. I have put narrow fullers into finished blades before with good results but can be a pretty intensive project unless you have just the right equipment at your disposal. As the steel in the bottom of the fuller becomes thinner heat can become an even bigger problem, causing warpage and/or over-tempering.
The cross section of the blade is probably the first kicker-some cross sections will sacrifice a lot of stiffness when a fuller is added, others less so. Before you risk damaging a 650$ sword you might buy a bar of mild steel to try your method on, or even a cheap Ebay wallhanger, this will give you an idea of how it might go and will illustrate some of the potential problems. These kinds of projects can teach you a lot and be very satisfying but it is perhaps best to start with inexpensive pieces until you have some confidence and experience.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Mon 19 May, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
I might be wrong, but I believe that Rob Miller of Castle Keep (and some other makers as well) puts his fullers in by hand using basically a file and a jig to get it straight. That would certainly avoid the heating problems, of course he may also be doing it before heat treat and I have no idea if it would be harder to do after the blade has been heat treated, it might be worth asking him...
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
|
|
|
|
|
Jean Thibodeau
|
| Posted: Mon 19 May, 2008 10:08 am Post subject: Re: putting a fuller in a finished blade |
|
|
| Chris Olsen wrote: | I am wondering what might happen if I were to grind a fuller into a finished 5160 steel blade? lets prettend I have access to the appropriate tools to do it.
would I be looking for a lot more trouble than it's worth?
would I potentially destroy the temper?
I am just looking for some outside guidance before i do something really stupid to a 650 dollar sword.
the piece and by extension the blade come from a reputable maker in the US.
thanks
chris
P.S. I want to do the work for mostly cosmetic reasons. |
Well, it can be done as I remember that Mark at OlliN did this for someone's sword, but remember that Mark is very talented and this very difficult to do and keep strait.
Link to a project like this done by OlliN: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...ight=ollin
Doing it by hand on a hardened blade might be possible with a diamond based abrasive but very time consuming.
Doing it with a grinding belt type grinder is less time consuming but one should do it in sort shallow passes and cool the blade between passes i.e. never let it get so hot that you couldn't hold it bare handed. ( Grinding a fuller on an already sharpened sword can be dangerous should the sword get away from you. In knife making this happens when the buffing wheel sort of grabs the blade and flings it hard in a " random " direction ....... anyway something I have read about  ).
The other issue is what kind of grind your blade has before you work on it: If it has a diamond section a fuller will remove the thickest part of the blade and might make the blade very whippy. Double fullers leaving the centre ridge at it's original thickness might work but it's already difficult enough to do one fuller.
If it's already a nice sword and handles well I would just be patient, save my money and buy another sword with a fuller. 
Oh, if the sword seems to heavy already, has a lenticular of hexagonal section a fuller might work well ?
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
|
|
|
|
|
Dan Dickinson
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Mon 19 May, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
As others have said, it's something that can be done, if you have the equipment and skill, but not something to be lightly done.
Maybe a pic of what you have and what you intend to do might help.
Dan
|
|
|
|
|
Bruno Giordan
|
| Posted: Mon 19 May, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
knifemakers in US make sue of the famous Burr Brown grinder, which has a tool for grinding appropriately fullers.
But it will cost you much more than a couple nice repro swords.
great grinder, though ...
|
|
|
|
|
|
P. Cha
|
| Posted: Mon 19 May, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Something your read huh Jean....yeah.
I was grinding some gemstone once when that happened and it went through my bedroom wall. Something like that with a knife sounds bad enough, much less a sword. Although if nobody got hurt, it would make for a huge no shite there I was story.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Raymond Deancona
|
| Posted: Tue 20 May, 2008 12:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Jean! You beat me to it.
I can't give enough praise to Ollin Sword Design.
They did an outstanding job of putting a fuller into an existing (and hilted) blade.
|
|
|
|
|
Jean Thibodeau
|
| Posted: Tue 20 May, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Raymond Deancona wrote: | Jean! You beat me to it.
I can't give enough praise to Ollin Sword Design.
They did an outstanding job of putting a fuller into an existing (and hilted) blade. |
Chris could contact OlliN and ask them about cost and the suitability of modifying his sword ? Just a thought. 
Doing this sort of job as a DIY project on a $650 sword as a first project doing fullering is " risky " to say the least and trying this out on a cheap beater sword might be a better idea before trying it on an expensive one.
That is unless one is a skilled machinist with the right equipment and can control the cutting or grinding of the fuller with precision.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anders Backlund
|
| Posted: Tue 20 May, 2008 9:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Russ Ellis wrote: | | I might be wrong, but I believe that Rob Miller of Castle Keep (and some other makers as well) puts his fullers in by hand using basically a file and a jig to get it straight. That would certainly avoid the heating problems, of course he may also be doing it before heat treat and I have no idea if it would be harder to do after the blade has been heat treated, it might be worth asking him... |
I'd say it's quite a bit harder. As a matter of fact, if I were to do the same thing, I would probably want to heat treat the blade to soften it first (by heating it and letting it cool slowly) to save myself some trouble. Untreated steel is tiresome to work in by hand, and I imagine hardened and tempered steel would be a nightmare.[/i]
The sword is an ode to the strife of mankind.
"This doesn't look easy... but I bet it is!"
-Homer Simpson.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This is a standard topic