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Chris Goerner
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 Posted: Fri 26 May, 2006 10:35 am Post subject: Scottish Weapons Show and Tell -- Photo Intensive |
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A friend of mine is putting together a group to reenact Montgomery's 77th Highlanders. It has given me an opportunity to use part of my collection for public demonstrations. I finally had the chance today to photograph some of my equipment, and thought I would post the photos for anyone interested in seeing them.
The S-hilt broadsword was made by Donnie Shearer (aka, the Mad Piper). I've owned 3 of Donnie's swords over the years and this one is definitely the best of them. I darkened the hilt with perma-blue, then buffed it down to leave some patination. The goal was not to make it look 200 years old, but to give it the appearance of a campaign veteran.
The dirk was made by Richard Mize of Fox Creek Forge. Richard does great work. I did, however, make a few modifications to this piece by filing the ferrule to have a concave base and adding to the decorative filing Richard had done to the pommel nut. To see the "before" photos, go to this link: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=3037&highlight=
The sgian achlais was made by Joe Seabolt of Cedar Ridge Forge. Again, a very well made piece by a good maker. And again, I couldn't leave well enough alone -- had to make a few modifications. When I received the sgian it only had jimping on one side of the blade with a fuller running down the other. I decided to add jimping to the fuller side as well. The grip was also a bit long for my taste, so I shortened it and repeened the tang over a flat, coin silver pommel cap.
-- Chris
Sic Semper Tyranus
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Chris Goerner
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| Posted: Fri 26 May, 2006 10:42 am Post subject: |
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A few more phots that didn't take to my first post...
Sic Semper Tyranus
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 26 May, 2006 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Nice set. You didn't say anything about the pistol though. Is it functional?
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Chris Goerner
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| Posted: Fri 26 May, 2006 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| Russ Ellis wrote: | | Nice set. You didn't say anything about the pistol though. Is it functional? |
Thanks, Russ.
Ah, the pistol. I bought it from Middlesex village Trading company http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/. It is a reproduction of the Royal Highland Regiments pistol pictured in Neumann's Encyclopedia of the American Revolution. It is technically functional, though I have owned/handled a couple of these pistols, and none of them have locks that function as they should. The geometry of the cock to the battery is off, so the battery doesn't swing open fully when contacted by the flint. I carry it more for show than for use, so it doesn't bother me too much.
Chris
Sic Semper Tyranus
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Steve Grisetti
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| Posted: Sat 27 May, 2006 6:17 am Post subject: |
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That is a lovely set, Chris. Whose blade did Mr. Shearer use in the basket hilt? Is that a Del Tin?
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Chris Goerner
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| Posted: Sat 27 May, 2006 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Steve Grisetti wrote: | | Whose blade did Mr. Shearer use in the basket hilt? Is that a Del Tin? |
Hi Steve,
Yes, it is a Del Tin that Donnie has them make especially for him. It is based on an original (sword 1:13) from pg. 30 of The Swords and the Sorrows. Donnie let me purchase one of these blades and a scabbard from him. I will be mounting it with a basket that ElJay Erickson is making for me. I should have the hilt around the end of next month, and can't wait!
Sic Semper Tyranus
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Thomas Hoogendam
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| Posted: Sat 27 May, 2006 9:24 am Post subject: |
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The grip on the s-hilt seems quite bulky, or is it just me?? The basket itself looks great though!! Did Donnie make the scabbard too??
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David Wilson
Location: In a van down by the river Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Tue 30 May, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Nice collection there!
I really like S-hilts. 
I have a couple similar pistols. They could be adapted to fire, but I've been too lazy and too cheap to get a proper vent hole drilled.
David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe
Now available on Amazon: Franklin Posner's "Suburban Vampire: A Tale of the Human Condition -- With Vampires" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072N7Y591
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Mon 31 Mar, 2008 7:15 am Post subject: Re: Scottish Weapons Show and Tell -- Photo Intensive |
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| Chris Goerner wrote: | The sgian achlais was made by Joe Seabolt of Cedar Ridge Forge. Again, a very well made piece by a good maker. And again, I couldn't leave well enough alone -- had to make a few modifications. When I received the sgian it only had jimping on one side of the blade with a fuller running down the other. I decided to add jimping to the fuller side as well. The grip was also a bit long for my taste, so I shortened it and repeened the tang over a flat, coin silver pommel cap.
-- Chris |
I know this is an old thread, but I like that sgian...
I've tried to find Cedar Ridge Forge on the web with no success. Does anyone have a link or contact info?
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Chris Goerner
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| Posted: Tue 01 Apr, 2008 6:15 am Post subject: |
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Chad,
Joe Seabolt is the proprietor of Cedar Ridge Forge. He does not have a website, but here is his contact information:
Joe Seabolt
6794 Gaynor Road
Goshen, OH 45122
(513) 722-4321
The sgian he made for me was very well done. By the way, regarding your other post about the file work on the spines of Scottish blades... the sgian I got from Joe had file work on one side only. I promptly added it to the other side myself because I believed that was historically correct based on other reproductions I had seen. Now I am not so sure. Maybe Joe can shed some light on the debate for us. At any rate, I am sure he can do whatever you would prefer him to regarding the decoration of the blade -- he is a great guy to deal with.
Best regards,
Chris
Sic Semper Tyranus
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GG Osborne
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| Posted: Tue 01 Apr, 2008 8:48 am Post subject: Scottish Pistols |
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Okay all, you know I couldn't refrain from commenting in Scottish weapons, especially the pistols. There are at least three Scottish pistols commercially available today, a bronze frame regimental style, the Bissel that Chris illustrated, and the Murdoch style, supposed to be a Doune-type. Of all, the bronze frame is the most authentic as it has a very small butt and a true Scottish lock where a sear engages to secure the cock when fully drawn back to fire.
Just recently, I have corresponded at length with one of the Indian companies that make the Murdoch-style and they have agreed to make two pistols for me with brass barrels and more correct triggers and vent pick. The frames and the barrels will be fully engraved and I hope they will follow the many pictures I sent as guides, but I do not have high hopes! At any rate, I hope that the pistols will be unique as opposed to the more commercially available. Apparently, the only truly hand-made pistols must be assembled from The Rife Shoppe castings which I understand takes a virtual Ph.D. in mechanical skills to assemble correctly! So, we'll see what happens with the ones Pradeep is making in India!
Also, I am attaching a coule of photographs (poor quality, I know, but I must be the only person on the planet without a high-rez digital camera) of two Jacobite long guns.
The first is a commercial 1717 model French musket that I converted with Rifle Shoppe parts to the correct wooden ramrod. This was fairly easy to do and The Rifle Shoppe was fairly quick on delivery. I stripped the stock and restained with a more 'antique' finish. Also, TRS has repros of the correct 1700, 1710, and 1728 bayonets that make these shoulder arms really attractive and much more authentic.
The second is a custom build by Ben Coogle of Ogelthorpe, GA of a 1700 Spanish Escopeta musket with the typical Spanish miquelet lock. The hardware was also from TRS. This musket is of the type landed in the 1719 Rebellion and which survived in some numbers throughout the period up to 1745. Escopetas were the arms that the Spanish exported to the colonies and it stands to reason that the Spanish muskets used in the 1745 may have been of this style. General Wade also comments on them in his study of the Highlands while he was busy building the military roads after the 1715 and 1719 Rebellions.
At any rate, I wanted to 'show them off' a bit as being weapons you generally don't see when talking about Jacobites.
 Attachment: 24.8 KB
"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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Lin Robinson
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| Posted: Tue 01 Apr, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Scottish Pistols |
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| GG Osborne wrote: |
Also, I am attaching a coule of photographs (poor quality, I know, but I must be the only person on the planet without a high-rez digital camera) of two Jacobite long guns.
The first is a commercial 1717 model French musket that I converted with Rifle Shoppe parts to the correct wooden ramrod. This was fairly easy to do and The Rifle Shoppe was fairly quick on delivery. I stripped the stock and restained with a more 'antique' finish. Also, TRS has repros of the correct 1700, 1710, and 1728 bayonets that make these shoulder arms really attractive and much more authentic.
The second is a custom build by Ben Coogle of Ogelthorpe, GA of a 1700 Spanish Escopeta musket with the typical Spanish miquelet lock. The hardware was also from TRS. This musket is of the type landed in the 1719 Rebellion and which survived in some numbers throughout the period up to 1745. Escopetas were the arms that the Spanish exported to the colonies and it stands to reason that the Spanish muskets used in the 1745 may have been of this style. General Wade also comments on them in his study of the Highlands while he was busy building the military roads after the 1715 and 1719 Rebellions.
At any rate, I wanted to 'show them off' a bit as being weapons you generally don't see when talking about Jacobites. |
George...
The bottom gun looks suspiciously like a brass barreled Scottish National piece by Steve Krolick. Am I right about that? Don't look like a Spanish gun to me.
Lin Robinson
"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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GG Osborne
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| Posted: Tue 01 Apr, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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The bottom gun is one by Steve. I attempted to attached a second photo of the 1717 French musket but could get it to 'stick' as the size was excessive. The top gun is the Escopeta.
"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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Jack W. Englund
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| Posted: Fri 04 Apr, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Goerner wrote: | | Russ Ellis wrote: | | Nice set. You didn't say anything about the pistol though. Is it functional? |
Thanks, Russ.
Ah, the pistol. I bought it from Middlesex village Trading company http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/. It is a reproduction of the Royal Highland Regiments pistol pictured in Neumann's Encyclopedia of the American Revolution. It is technically functional, though I have owned/handled a couple of these pistols, and none of them have locks that function as they should. The geometry of the cock to the battery is off, so the battery doesn't swing open fully when contacted by the flint. I carry it more for show than for use, so it doesn't bother me too much.
Chris |
If you are having problems with this gun , contact Pete @ MVT directly. He will do what he can to assist ( tell him Jack ( Puffer0) sent you. He has a lot of knowledge about "Highland Scots pistols..
They are fun to shoot. I am currently saving up to get the parts to build one.from parts from this org. http://shop.therifleshoppe.com/main.sc
Because these guns are some what difficult to assemble, I am having a frieng, who is a very good gun maker do the work for me. The next major thing is to find an engravet. Know of any ??
Jack
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Jack W. Englund
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| Posted: Fri 04 Apr, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: Scottish Pistols |
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| GG Osborne wrote: | Okay all, you know I couldn't refrain from commenting in Scottish weapons, especially the pistols. There are at least three Scottish pistols commercially available today, a bronze frame regimental style, the Bissel that Chris illustrated, and the Murdoch style, supposed to be a Doune-type. Of all, the bronze frame is the most authentic as it has a very small butt and a true Scottish lock where a sear engages to secure the cock when fully drawn back to fire.
Just recently, I have corresponded at length with one of the Indian companies that make the Murdoch-style and they have agreed to make two pistols for me with brass barrels and more correct triggers and vent pick. The frames and the barrels will be fully engraved and I hope they will follow the many pictures I sent as guides, but I do not have high hopes! At any rate, I hope that the pistols will be unique as opposed to the more commercially available. Apparently, the only truly hand-made pistols must be assembled from The Rife Shoppe castings which I understand takes a virtual Ph.D. in mechanical skills to assemble correctly! So, we'll see what happens with the ones Pradeep is making in India!
Also, I am attaching a coule of photographs (poor quality, I know, but I must be the only person on the planet without a high-rez digital camera) of two Jacobite long guns.
The first is a commercial 1717 model French musket that I converted with Rifle Shoppe parts to the correct wooden ramrod. This was fairly easy to do and The Rifle Shoppe was fairly quick on delivery. I stripped the stock and restained with a more 'antique' finish. Also, TRS has repros of the correct 1700, 1710, and 1728 bayonets that make these shoulder arms really attractive and much more authentic.
The second is a custom build by Ben Coogle of Ogelthorpe, GA of a 1700 Spanish Escopeta musket with the typical Spanish miquelet lock. The hardware was also from TRS. This musket is of the type landed in the 1719 Rebellion and which survived in some numbers throughout the period up to 1745. Escopetas were the arms that the Spanish exported to the colonies and it stands to reason that the Spanish muskets used in the 1745 may have been of this style. General Wade also comments on them in his study of the Highlands while he was busy building the military roads after the 1715 and 1719 Rebellions.
At any rate, I wanted to 'show them off' a bit as being weapons you generally don't see when talking about Jacobites. |
The Bissell does not use the "highland lock. It was made by Isaac Bisell ( Birmingham England ) ca 1789+++ for the Highland reg. Here is a pic of an original
Jack
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Lin Robinson
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| Posted: Sat 05 Apr, 2008 6:07 am Post subject: Re: Scottish Pistols |
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| Jack W. Englund wrote: |
The Bissell does not use the "highland lock. It was made by Isaac Bisell ( Birmingham England ) ca 1789+++ for the Highland reg.
Jack |
Jack...
He is referring to the bronze framed Waters pistol, not the Bissell. The Waters pistols do have the Highland lock with the sear protruding from the lock plate.
Lin Robinson
"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Lin Robinson
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| Posted: Sat 05 Apr, 2008 6:53 am Post subject: |
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Here is a photo of the 17th c. Scottish rifle by Steve Krolick that I received a couple of weeks ago. It is not a copy of any particular gun but does have some of the characteristics of the Breadalbane gun. I will post more detailed photos when I get time.
Attachment: 32.93 KB
[ Download ]
Lin Robinson
"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Jack W. Englund
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| Posted: Sat 05 Apr, 2008 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Scottish Pistols |
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| Lin Robinson wrote: | | Jack W. Englund wrote: |
The Bissell does not use the "highland lock. It was made by Isaac Bisell ( Birmingham England ) ca 1789+++ for the Highland reg.
Jack |
Jack...
He is referring to the bronze framed Waters pistol, not the Bissell. The Waters pistols do have the Highland lock with the sear protruding from the lock plate. |
Thank you Lin.
BTW, I ERRORED in an other manner. The picture showed is NOT A Bissell
I hit the wrong KEY" It is a MacLeod
Here is the correct picture
Jack
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Henrik Bjoern Boegh
Location: Agder, Norway Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 386
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| Posted: Sat 05 Apr, 2008 10:13 am Post subject: |
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Wow and wow! Finally a post with pictures of beautyful Scottish firearms repros!
George, how did you get in contact with the people who make the Indian Murdoch repros? How much do you have to pay to get one engraved and made with more correct trigger? A French 1717 musket and a Doune-styled pistol is two of the things I lack as part of my Jacobite kit that I would really love to have. I have decided I will buy one of the 1717s offered by the Discriminating General (but will have to wait till I can afford one) and am also considering a proper bayonet for it. Will the 1728 bayonet fit the barrel of the 1717?
Cheers,
Henrik
Constant and true.
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Henrik Bjoern Boegh
Location: Agder, Norway Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 386
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| Posted: Sat 05 Apr, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: |
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By the way, here is a bit of info on the Waters bronze or "gun metal" stocked pistols:
The Waters pistol is stocked in bronze, or "gun metal", as it was called, and has a peculiar kidney-shaped butt. At first glance, its design appears to evolve from the heart-butted pistols of Eastern Scotland, but actually it is a strengthened variation of the scroll-butt: slab-sided but avoiding the inner arcs of the scroll. Fabrication of the Waters began no later than 1788, when a lot was nearly procured for the 74th and 75th Highland Regiments. Because of the tre-foil extension of the steel spring and the mortise & tenon type fit of the top jaw, they were probably being manufactured prior to that date. Another military-type all-metal pistol is known to the author: it is stocked in "gun metal" with fully scrolled butt and has English proof marks on the barrel. The Highland regiments ceased to carry pistols in 1795, if not earlier.
This is quoted from
Weapons of the Highland Regiments 1740-1780 by Anthony D. Darling
Cheers,
Henrik
Constant and true.
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