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Craig Peters
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 Posted: Thu 24 Apr, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject: Bevors and Helmets |
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On period suits of armour, were bevors typically an integral attachment to the helmet? Were the bevor and helmet normally two seperate pieces? Or were they either/or?
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Thu 24 Apr, 2008 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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It depends on the era. When worn with a sallet, the bevor was most often (though not always) separate. The term bevor has also been applied to the separate piece (wrapper) strapped on to reinforce an armet. Once we get into the era of the close helm, the term bevor is often used for the bottom-most section (the one that covers your chin). But it would be one of the pieces that would rotate on the common pivot on either side of the helm.
With burgonets, the lower face covering could be called a bevor, but is also often referred to as a buffe. These could be totally separate pieces or they could be integral.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Thu 24 Apr, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: | | It depends on the era. When worn with a sallet, the bevor was most often (though not always) separate. |
Hi Chad,
I've never seen a bevor that was integral to a helmet. You don't happen to have any pictures, do you? I thought they were always separate.
HistoricalHandcrafts.com
-Inspired by History, Crafted by Hand
"For practice is better than artfulness. Your exercise can do well without artfulness, but artfulness is not much good without the exercise.” -anonymous 15th century fencing master, MS 3227a
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Christian Henry Tobler
Location: Oxford, CT Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 704
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Thu 24 Apr, 2008 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Bill Grandy wrote: | Hi Chad,
I've never seen a bevor that was integral to a helmet. You don't happen to have any pictures, do you? I thought they were always separate. |
I'll take a look at my references at some point and see what I can do. My books are all kind of boxed up and my scanner isn't hooked up since the basement flooded a bit and we had to move everything out of it.
I seem to remember that Alan Senefelder may have had a sallet with attached bevor. I tried to look it up on the Mercenary's Tailor site, which is running ridiculously slowly for me tonight (and has other nights as well).
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Craig Peters
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| Posted: Thu 24 Apr, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: | | It depends on the era. When worn with a sallet, the bevor was most often (though not always) separate. |
Conveniently, I'm looking for a bevor to accompany my sallet, so seperate sounds just fine. Are there any potential pitfalls to watch for when one has seperate pieces?
Thanks.
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Russ Thomas
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 25 Apr, 2008 1:03 am Post subject: combination sallets an bevors |
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Hi Folks,
There are , that I am aware of, four combination sallets and bevors in existence, all made or attributed to Lorenz Helmschmied. There are two at Vienna, KHM. # 205 and 110. There is the Met. example already noted , and I cannot remember off the top of my head where the fourth is, but I think that it may be in Madrid ? They date variously between ca. 1485 and 1516.
Here is a picture of #110 at the KHM, Vienna, 1485.
Regards,
Russ
EDIT: I hope that whoever actually took this picture will not object to my using it here to illustrate the point. It is by far the nicest of the helmets, IMHO !
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Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero !
http://www.living-history.no
Last edited by Russ Thomas on Fri 25 Apr, 2008 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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James Arlen Gillaspie
Industry Professional
Location: upstate NY Joined: 10 Nov 2005
Posts: 587
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| Posted: Fri 25 Apr, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Here's a couple pic's of the 'Turkish Prisoner' at the Met.
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jamesarlen.com
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Russ Thomas
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 25 Apr, 2008 10:07 am Post subject: |
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Hi James,
That is a great view of the Met. example ! I have never seen it viewed from that angle before. The bevor does not appear to be as sharp at the front as I thought that it was, certainly compared to A.62. Have you ever had a chance to examine it ?
Regards,
Russ
I am still racking my brains trying to think of the whereabouts of the fourth example, but possibly I am mistaking it for KHM. A.79. which also has the bevor joined, but in a totally different manner.
Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero !
http://www.living-history.no
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Tom Pawlicki
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| Posted: Fri 25 Apr, 2008 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
Maybe not exactly a sallet but in "Dictionnaire raisone du mobiller francais - V" of Eugenne Viollet le Duc ( XIX century historian/ architect) isshown an exemple of unique helmet , kind of bascinet or pre-sallet .
( I'm not sure is it real or is it fake, but i had some rumors that there is an existing exemple. If any one have any informations about it, I would be really gratefull )
Le duc is dating it on the late XIV century, France of Charles V.
Tom
PS. Sorry for my English 
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Steven H
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| Posted: Fri 25 Apr, 2008 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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I really like this helmet design . . . but I'm not clear on how one puts it on. Not seeing it with a human head to compare it with doesn't help.
Does it go on like a modern fencing mask?
Cheers,
Steven
Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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This is a standard topic