Does anyone know what this type of sword this is? -- myArmoury.com

Daniel Scott

Hello,

I am curious if anyone could answer a question for me about a sword that I saw in the movie Braveheart as I have been having no luck locating information on my own. In certain scenes of the movie, some of the actors are holding a strange looking sword. The blade of this sword is narrow at the hilt and as the blade gets longer it flairs evenly along it's length to it's widest point about 2 - 3 inches from the point. at the end of the blade. Instead of the sharpened edge of the blade forming a convex curve towards the spine as a falchion would, the curve is convex, resulting in it having a rather pronounced point where it meets the spine. I believe that the blade is only sharpened one side and I am not sure of the type of guard at the hilt. Also, the weapon was only used by the Scottish warriors, never the English. The movie, to my knowledge, never showed a close ups of the weapon, so that is about as detailed as I can be. Does anyone know what type of sword this is? In my curiosity, i have been looking on the net to find more information about it, but I have failed. Any help would be appreciated, this has been bugging me. Thanks for any info!

M. Wagner · Posted: Mon 03 Mar, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject:

The one in the centre?

William Knight · Posted: Mon 03 Mar, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject:

If it's in Braveheart chances are the oakshotte classiflcation is a LXX-LXIII prop.

Lin Robinson

Jonathan Hopkins · Posted: Mon 03 Mar, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject:

I believe it is supposed to be a falchion, but that is about as much as I know.

Jonathan

John Love · Posted: Mon 03 Mar, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject:

It looks like it could be a Conyers falchion. See http://bjorn.foxtail.nu/h_conyers_eng.htm

Doug Lester · Posted: Mon 03 Mar, 2008 7:13 pm Post subject:

I'd love to know how the movie directors make up their minds about what type of swords to choose for a movie. The English forces were way too uniform for that time period. The standard issue weapons and uniforms were out of line for that time period from what I understand. The English would have been just as likely to carry falchions as the Scots. Remember that even the best "historical epics" tend to take a few facts and spin a lot of fiction around it. Some by necessity.

If you watch "Kingdom of Heaven" you'll notice that Godfrey of Iblien's squire carried a falchion that looked a lot like a scimitar as well as a war hammer. I think that you can get a slightly better look at it in the director's cut version of the movie, which in my opinion is a better version of the story. The extra features are great too.

John Love · Posted: Tue 04 Mar, 2008 1:57 am Post subject:

It seems that historical accuracy is never high up on the film makers scale of importance, no matter which period of weaponry they are trying to portray. We find it frustrating but the fact remains, for every 1 person that sees a film & notices these mistakes there are 1000's that haven't got a clue so the film companies don't care.

Do frequent comments of "that isn't right" drive your families mad too?

Daniel Scott · Posted: Tue 04 Mar, 2008 4:40 am Post subject:

Thanks for all the replies guys. This was my first post to these forums and I wasn't sure how it would be received. Many forums can develop a very tight knit community which at times can be unfriendly to new people or people who are not very knowledgeable about the subject of the forums. I admit that when it comes to my knowledge of the different types of swords, I rate no higher than an amateur at best. I do have a passion for them though and feel that they can be just as beautiful as any work of art hanging in a museum. As you can most likely tell from my last name, which happens to be Scott, I am Scottish and therefore take a special interest in the weapons used by my ancestors. This is what prompted me to inquire about the sword in the movie, as I had never seen anything like it before. I do realize, that movie producers take liberties when it comes to history, period dress and weapon props as well. I believe they do this in order to take advantage of the romantic vision, which many people have of history. Again, I would like to thank you all for the insights you have provided. I will be sure to direct any questions I might have to you all from now on, because it seems that you all are a very knowledgeable bunch.

Lin Robinson · Posted: Tue 04 Mar, 2008 11:35 am Post subject:

Anders Backlund · Posted: Tue 04 Mar, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject:

Jim Venable · Posted: Thu 06 Mar, 2008 12:41 am Post subject:

James R.Fox · Posted: Thu 06 Mar, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject:

First, that is a Conyers Falchion, as soon as I saw it I knew it, but my brain stripped a gear. It does do that. It's correct, and as I have pointed out before, the scott metal industry was such at the time of William Wallace and Robert Bruce that all arms and armour were imported or stolen from the englisth My best source,and the best study I.ve seen of the economics of medieval warfare,is "Wars of the Bruces" by Colm McNamee.So the movie frame is right, a scot could very well be carrying such a weapon, it's the uniformity of the English that's wrong, I agree.By the way on my grandmother's side I'm an Armstrong from Liddesdale. Our favorite thing to do at highland gatherings is go to the Campbells' meeting and yell UP the Armstrongs! and play our war song. I'm affraid it's behavior ;like that, plus holding the Nixons,Croziers and Scotts of Buccleih as slaves that made sure the Armstrong clan was attaindered untill 1939 You know how those Nixons hold grudges.The best public source on border raiding, by the way, is "The Steel Bonnets" by George MacDonald Frazier. It's from a slight;y later period, but the economics and politics are pretty much the same and more important (ahem) we Armstrongs are in it. Happy

John Love · Posted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 4:12 am Post subject:

Do any members know if a faithful replica of the Conyers falchion is currently being made? I've found the Depeeka 'Sir John Conyers Falchion Ref: AH-4107' but the blade on that is more like a widened Thorpe falchion & it's definitely not what I'm looking for.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Christopher Gregg · Posted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 7:09 am Post subject: Braveheart sword

I think Daniel may also be referring to the short sword carried by many of the Scottish horsemen in Braveheart. It has a long triangular blade without a crosshilt, and reminds me of one of the so called medieval choppers illustrated in the Maciejowski Bible. Del Tin makes a replica of this style of sword, #5133. As has been pointed out, the sword used in the movie was a plastic or rubber prop, so as not to harm the actors wielding them. I remember watching a special on the making of the film, and one of the prop people was interviewed about how they made the non-metal weapons used by soldiers who would be filmed from afar.

I believe that Windlass or MRL made a version of the Maciejowski Bible chopper for some time, but it is now discontinued.

James R.Fox · Posted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 10:13 am Post subject:

Sirs-First,has anyone noticed how completely and utterly correct Mel Gibson's costume is? He is wearing a coat of plates over several layers of thick wool cloth. It is a heavier version than the MRL version though. Second, I don't know of anyone making a Conyers Falchion now, although there are many custom makers who would undoubedly oblige.

Glen A Cleeton · Posted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 11:18 am Post subject:

There are some rudimentary production offerings of the Conyers falchion out there. Deepeeka comes to mind. IIRC, they get it wrong and call it something else while listing a different falchion as the John Conyers. Here is one Glen Parrell made. I adopted it from the Bishop of Albion some years ago. Aside from the grip being longer and hilt heavier in general, fairly true to the original's specifications

Some of those blades in Braveheart have been described as farm implements. The screenshot presented earlier in this thread was honestly the first time I noticed one without a very flat clipped tip. The one the fellow on horseback rides away with in the second big battle scene has no guard.

Cheers

GC

James R.Fox · Posted: Fri 07 Mar, 2008 11:29 am Post subject:

I am so jealous of you I will be seeing green for the next month. I can't afford to buy swords at all, just my paper armoury, to coin a phrase.

Lafayette C Curtis · Posted: Fri 14 Mar, 2008 12:39 am Post subject:

James R.Fox · Posted: Fri 14 Mar, 2008 7:09 am Post subject:

Lafayette-when I said correct, That was what I meant. We did NOT wear kilts at that time. We wore the Hallstadt celt form of the toga, or long cloak or what ever you want to call it. We called it a pladie.Th was a piece of wool cloth 2 ells wide by 7-8 ells long which was wrapped around the waist,then over the shoulders and back, and was secured by a waist belt, and often broaches. This was worh over a long shirt or tunic of wool or linen, two or three tunics in winter if possible.This was the common costume of all the pastoral tribes that moved into Europe from the Russian steppe, the Dorian Greeks, the Latins, The Hallstadt Celts.ca 1200 BCE. The Scotti were Hallstadt celts driven out of Ulster by La Tene celts traditionally led by Nial of the 9 hostages and his sons, who founded the UaNeill in Ulster.The Scotti, who had already colonized the Western Ilands and Galloway in Scotland, moved there. They then conquered the Cruthini (Picts) and drove out the Welsh (or Strathclyde British) and Kenneth MacAlpin declared himaelf King of Scotland around 900 BCE.So being Halstedt Celts, the clothing worn by Mel Gibson is perfectly correct, He's wearing a shirt with a blue check pladie wrapped over it. If you remember the movie there is honeymoon scene where his wife is in her shift helping him wrap his pladie over his shirt,