[F. Carl Holz]

that last bit is the most important for anyone taking one up. When I used to play around with padded weapons with my siblings (I don't live near them now) I had a flail that I liked to used. The head was constructed almost entirely of foam from camping pads but there are still a lot of things I would rather do than get hit in the face with that thing!

I am curious though, while my flail wasn't very period, the handle was about a foot and a half long with a cord running about two feet in length, one of the moves I had a lot of fun with was on a back swing snapping it forward rather like a whip so that the head flew in a straight path at who ever it was I was facing. Given the fact that most flails (all of them for all I know) had rather short flexible lengths is this something that might have ever been seen when these were in use?

[Ruben D. Wiedijk]

[Lucas LaVoy]

While tameshigiri might be out of the question, does anybody have any video of a flail in (attempted) use? Flails seem to be the only thing NOT featured on youtube in depth. If nothing else a bit of video might help assess the effect of the length of the chain on the flail's handling.

[Mark Hanna]

Took a stab at making a flail head today. Gotta work on the points more, but they would still be ouchy.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb280/amthanna/flail.jpg

Mark

[Dan Howard]

[Randall Moffett]

Dan Howard Wrote:

[Boyd C-F]

Ha ha! Mark - do you read something on here and just run out to the workshop to give it a try?

[Mark Hanna]

Well this is certainly a great place for information. I am running a Hussite encampment next weekend at a medieval time line event in Media PA. So I'm trying to get some examples done and having a good time doing it.

Mark

[Lafayette C Curtis]

[Randall Moffett]

Mark,

Take pictures!

Any info on your group?

RPM

[Jeff A. Arbogast]

Since the El Cid movie was brought up showing some flail use, don't forget the jousting scene where the Cid gets the living daylights beaten out of him by the other knight riding at him whipping his flail around backhanded and knocking him for a loop several times after he's unhorsed. One of the better jousting scenes I think.
There is also a more obscure movie Charlton Heston did called "The War Lord." Aside from the typical corn of such movies of the era, in the beginning he knocks a Frisian chieftan literally off his feet several times using the same backhanded whipping motion with his flail before he's finally knocked off his horse by a well-aimed shot in the chest with the Frisian'a axe. After that the sword comes out, and the fight continues. All in all a pretty good combat sequence, especially for the time.
Oh yeah, and there was the final combat scene in the old "Ivanhoe" movie, where Ivanhoe, after getting nailed several times by the flail, manages to get the chain wrapped around the shaft of his axe, yanking Brian de Bois-Gilbert off his horse and then axing him. Not a bad fight scene either, although the flail is called a "mace and chain." Not real sure what the distinctions between the names are though.

[Mark Hanna]

Don't forget the opening scene in Roman Polanski's Macbeth were a guy is going around checking to see if soldiers are really dead and when one starts to move he starts wacking him in the back with a ball and chain and ever widening pool of red.

Yes we got some good pictures I will post on photo bucket and put a link on a hussite thread. Had a good time and met some other nice people from the myArmoury site.

Mark

[J Gerg]

[Jean Henri Chandler]

[A.A. Boskaljon]

[quote="J Gerg"]

[William P]

regarding the nunchaku and other 'flail like weapons'

the nunchuku, so people know, while its said to be an agricultural thresher, theres good reason to suspect the weapon was introduced by the chinese, who had, for a fair while, utilized a massive variety of flexible impact weapons, the chinese have also, for a long time possessed other okinawan weapons, the crutch, otherwise known as the tonfa, is another example,
the flexible weapons ones i know of at least are

chain whip (essentially a handle with a a a long chain of iron pieces, usually its about 3-4 feet long, and known also as the 9 section staff, but there is also 3 section chain whip, plus 5 and 7 section chain whip,

which brings us neatly to the weapons like the nunchuku,
we have the 3 section staff, it consists of three, 2 foot long pieces of wood attatched to each other by a couple of chain links, so what you have is a staff, thats made of 3 sections,

theres the 2 section staff as well, with a couple of varients, theres the long and short version, which is pretty much exactly the same as the european 2 handed threshing flail made famous by the hussites.
there is also evidence of their being 2 section staffs that had handles of equal length i.e nunchuku

however the most unicrazy chinese impact weapon easily has to be the meteor hammer, its essentially a big metal ball the size of a large orange or a grapefruit, attatched to a 3-5 meter long rope its used by winding it around joints and when unwound, results in alot of force, but its a hard weapon to use really well from what ive heard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZMM0ESgXrA
many of you will remember such a weapon from kill bill, wielded by gogo yuburi against the bride.


i realise this thread is about european maces and flails, but considering the huge variety of chinese impace weapons, you cant help but mention some of them.

[Richard B. Price]

its rather odd that this topic popped up again so suddenly, I just began construction of a flail of my own, if simply for the fact that I don't already have one. I'm not shooting for any sort of historic authenticity, but more of a "I'm carrying hell's fury on a chain' kinda thing. It's obviously not done yet, I still need to weld the head and chain, stain and leather wrap the handle, but at least you get the idea. Overall the chain is roughly a foot long, the handle is 12 inches and the two steel plates are 5 X5, a little more than 7 inches across, when turned. Should be deadly when I'm done.

[Thomas Peters]

Concerning the use of flails.
The group I am in does allow the use of flails in combat with one key condition. A quality helm must be worn by all combatants!!! I personally knocked out one of our members with a flail while practicing at about 1/4 speed and hitting him in the back of the head. He ducked and this weapon is very hard to stop or pull a blow.
I can not say how historically accurate our flail is. The construction of the flail we use has an 18 inch handle, 20 inches of chain (plastic for safety reasons) and the ball is a 4inch Nerf ball with a golf ball core and is wrapped in duct tape.
This weapon creates an incredible amount of force when swung at combat speed. It will wrap around a shield with ease and has a relatively quick recovery time after a solid hit. It is very "aimable" and with practice the user can become very adept at placing the ball where he or she wants to. You can change direction with it but only to a limited degree. It is a great Shock and Awe weapon to start a battle with if you are in an open area but in tight quarters it is as dangerous to your friends as it is to your enemies.
The biggest disadvantage of the weapon is that once the ball is stopped it is just so much weight on the end of a chain on a stick. Also, it is an open area weapon and is not good for close in combat or for combat in a confined space, and as stated before it is as dangerous to the user as it is to the person it is being used on.
The best defense against this weapon is to disrupt the movement of the ball and get in close to the combatant using it. Once in close it is not effective because the user can not get enough momentum behind the swing to make it effective.
The above comments are for the flail design that we use only; but, after reading the posts on this subject and looking at the pictured examples I do believe I will be making some new flails and trying them out.
I will let you know how things turn out.

[Jean Thibodeau]

The learning curve must be very hazardous if using a real one, so be very very careful.

[David Hohl]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but Richard, with a handle the same length as the chain, don't you stand a fair chance of hitting yourself in the hand or arm with the head?